talk about quoting process!

[John Davidson]

I can’t really see anything wrong with it – am I missing something? If you shoot everything yourself, pay talent non-union $500, use Soundtrack loops to provide music or buy cheap music for it, vo with a non-union guy ($300-$500).

Mostly you’ll be shooting convention centers B-Roll, Family entertainment (beach scenes), adult night life (clubs, not strippers), etc – won’t that cover what they’re looking for? The business and convention folks want you to do this so I don’t think you’ll run into clearance issues for buildings, etc.

They’d need to pony up some flow, but if that’s what they want then hopefully they can afford it…

Good luck!
JD

John Davidson____ writer | producer | director____https://www.magicfeatherinc.com

[Steve Wargo]

Bid at 3 days of shooting with XXX to be charged for extra days
Bid no talent host at $500 for 1st hour and then std rate for OT
Bid 5 days for post and plan on 2 months for decisions by their panel of production experts who will always find something wrong with everything just so they can appear to know something which they don’t. But, they will probably stay at a Holiday Inn Express the night before your meeting so they can earn PhDs
Bill for an entire day to build the streamers off of your master file. Plan on guessing what they need because the guy in charge of web hosting will never return your call because he doesn’t want you to find out how stupid he/she is.
Most of the time, it is illegal for gov’t entities to pay ahead so plan on months to collect your money.

I’d put it at $7500 to $9500 with lots of restrictions, clauses and late payment penalties.

We quit bidding on this type of work years ago because of the morons that are asking for the bids. If we do happen to throw a number out, it’s very high just to cover the ulcer medicine.

good Luck Greg!

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona

It’s a dry heat!

[Cowdog]

[Steve Wargo] “Bid 5 days for post and plan on 2 months for decisions by their panel of production experts who will always find something wrong with everything just so they can appear to know something which they don’t. Plan on guessing what they need because the guy in charge of web hosting will never return your call because he doesn’t want you to find out how stupid he/she is. Most of the time, it is illegal for gov’t entities to pay ahead so plan on months to collect your money. We quit bidding on this type of work years ago because of the morons that are asking for the bids. If we do happen to throw a number out, it’s very high just to cover the ulcer medicine.”

Mister Wargo, I swear I’m glad I wasn’t snuffling around in a bowl of kibble and beer or I’d uh shot beer out my nose laughing so hard when I read this.

Too funny, and all the more so because of its acerbic reality.

Yer pal,

Cowdog

visit my homepage

[Mark Suszko]

I have done large projects with less info to start with. One of the commercials I did, the client just drew me three stick figures on a bar napkin, and that was the script AND storyboard. They adored the final product, said it exceeded their vision and was the best they’d ever had. Witht he right people, there’s a level of trust that they are creative and capable of fleshing out a skeletal proposal.

You need to decide if you are up for the uncertainty and confusion you will get during production from such ill-prepared and inarticulate clients. If you are charging by the hour, their disorganization is your gain. Frankly, one reason the description is sketchy is they just want to know what time is is, they don’t want or need to know how the clock is built. That’s your job, educating and guiding them thru the process. If you feel they are worth the work, that is. Somebody needs to come up with a creative treatment and script, and if that is you, you need to bill apropriately for it. Walking them thru the treatment process saves everyone a lot of time, money, and grief, and makes it more likely the final product is exactly what they said and meant they wanted.

One guiding principle I go by is, no matter how many people give you “input”, you only have to listen to one person; the guy what signs the checks. The “contact” or “liason” or whatever they call themselves that works with you directly comes with many agendas, some of which have nothing to do with you making a good product. You can bust your tail trying to please this rep, and all the other folks giving you “input” and critiques only to find out the finished work is nothing like what the Guy That Signs The Checks wants or likes. Be sure you know who you are working for, because it’s not always the guy or gal sitting in the suite with you.

You should bill at least a third up front no matter what their stated policy is. Speaking of policy, one way to make this work for you is to write in an early-payment discount. Many governments have a rule that says vendors that offer a prompt payment discounts get paid first. Specify final delivery is contingent upon payment in full, without exceptions. Until then, all they get are dubs with time code window burns on them, or a screening at your shop. Do NOT hand over the finished masters until paid. Yes, they will scream and kick. Then they will go to the line item in their budget for emergency payments for things of this sort, and pay you.

[Greg Ball]

Thanks for your input. In regard to your Napkin script and storyboard, I’ve ad the same. But how do you fill out a bid that you will be held to without information? Government agencies usually accept the lowest bid,
I won’t risk writing down a price without knowing exactly what that project will include.

Sure, their disorganization can be my gain if I can use change orders and keep modifying the price. But if they are holding me to my bid price, their disorganzation can by my demise.

For John, I pride myself on quality work for reasonable rates. Shooting this myself, and doing everything on the cheap would be a disservice to a client. Do YOU really operate this way?

[Mark Suszko]

Well, if you break the project into smaller chunks, you can work to a set price yet protect yourself. Bid for the shoot by itself and the edit by itself and the initial consulting/treatment-script phase by itself. Or since they want to do three different pieces, bid just on one.

If they are unwilling to bend at all, and it looks like they want a full 3-ring circus priced for just the peanuts, without any well-defined direction, then maybe you should take the opportunity to refer these guys to your worst rival, and not take it on yourself. It’s hard to turn down work when you are hungry and have bills to pay, but the few times I’ve turned down work I have not been sorry in the end.

In the end, they will discover, the easy way or the hard way, what something good costs to put together right. You could wait the thing out until they get a clue and come back to deal with you on better terms.

[John Davidson]

Hey Greg, I don’t know you, your marketing size, or your situation because your profile is completely blank, so when I give you options on how this can be done, I’m basing it on several assumptions that I’ve got to make due to a lack of information provided. Can you shoot? I don’t know. Are you in in New York, or Milledgeville, GA? I don’t know. .

Regardless, you solicited the cow world for advice because you felt you needed it – which leads me to assume you’re not pulling a crew of 40, shooting on 35mm and using Billy Crystal as host. I provided you with an option that could be done and IS done well by lots of small crews on a daily basis in small to medium markets.

“For John, I pride myself on quality work for reasonable rates. Shooting this myself, and doing everything on the cheap would be a disservice to a client. Do YOU really operate this way?”

(deep cleansing breath) Good luck with your project Greg!

John Davidson____ writer | producer | director____https://www.magicfeatherinc.com

[Greg Ball]

John, I’m not looking to argue here. I agree that you made assumptions based on little information. My market is a large one. I produce, direct, and edit mostly corporate videos for large corporations. We certainly have the capability of pulling a crew of 40, and using Billy Crystal as a host. However, I respect the opinion of my peers on the cow. I didn’t realize that you can’t be a seasoned professional and ask a question on the cow. Yes, there are many wedding video guys out there who would offer your suggestions to this client….and succeed in getting the gig. I’m not one of them.

[John Davidson]

Well now you know. Seasoned pros – not allowed.

It’s all WD-40, duct tape, and a cellphone camera in my shop!

John Davidson____ writer | producer | director____https://www.magicfeatherinc.com

[Greg Ball]

Have you thought about hosting the COWmedy Club Lounge ? You’re wit is just so over all of our heads.