Syncing Firestore drives

[Stuart Simpson]

Hi there,

We had a shoot with 3 firestores on 3 seperate angles that we put together using the multiclip finction. I must say though that we had some timecode problems sometimes the firestore timecode could be a few seconds outside of the timecode on the tape.

Our best workflow was actually to use a good old clapperboard and time of day timecode to give us a sync point that all the cameras recorded. Then in multiclip we set each clips in-point to the clapper and synced timecode from there. Any gaps appeared in the multiclip as black.

-Simmie
1 G5 – Cinewave
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1 xbox, 1 PS2 & a Gamecube
https://www.speak.co.uk

[David Smith]

[Kevin] “Never used the drives yet but”

Kevin,

I don’t claim any experience in such a shooting system but have a few thoughts:

You ARE going to record on tape to back up your “footage” right?

I think you would be very well served to try this out on a test record since you’ve not used the drives before. That would include stopping and starting one of the cameras to induce a timecode break, and then importing the files into FCP and trying out the syncing process in Multiclip.

Do the VX-100’s have a remote control? If so you can set them to run time of day and then use a remote to start the timecode on both cameras simultaneously. I did this just yesterday with three Sony Z1’s and they were within frames of each other, if not perfect. After you get the TC running, focus one of the cameras on the TC display of the other and roll some tape (whoops, I mean spin some drive AND roll some tape) then you’ll have a visual record of the TC offset, if any.

And from the Department of Redundancy Department….. do a test shoot and edit!!!!

Good luck and have fun,
David

[Kevin]

Thank you so much David fpr posting back. All great advice. Yes for sure I’m taping also and always will. I’d like to be able to toss the tapes in a shoe box though for emergency and not have to deal with and any dropouts either.

I will definitely also test. I have two new FS-4s arriving today so I’ll be able to give it all a whirl.

Great tip on the remote. I do have one and I definitely will use it for evnts whihch am recording fully but this one is an all day affair, corporate launch, so the cameras will be coming on an off all day.

Also taping the other cameras TC is a great tip, never tried that either but will.

Many thanks again for all this great input.

Peace,

K.

[David Smith]

[Kevino] “Great tip on the remote. I do have one and I definitely will use it for evnts whihch am recording fully but this one is an all day affair, corporate launch, so the cameras will be coming on an off all day.”

Glad the comments were useful Kevin. The remote tip should work just fine for the all day affair. I’m not talking about rolling the tape via the remote, but starting the TC counter in Time of Day (Free Run) mode. I don’t know how Panny does it, but on the Sony you set the menu to Free Run, then hit Start (again, starting the TC generator, not the tape). We just used the remote for the “Start” phase so all three camera’s TC generators started up together. This was an all day interview shoot with time out for breaks and lunch, so there were many tape stops and starts. The free run TC stayed synced throughout the day.

Please do start a new thread discussing your experiences with the drives after the weekend. I’m very interested in the workflow, but being a bit old school, frankly it scares me! (not so much in your case with a tape back-up, but the whole new Panny P2 thing where there will be NO high def. back-up on tape, that makes me nervous.)

Enjoy the new toys,
David

[Kevin]

Hi David,

Thanks for the clarification on setting up the ime code with the remote. That was on my list of to-dos for later and I posted that question on the Panasonic board. Very timely.

Yes I’m with you on the nature of shooting only digitally. I’ll always shoot both tape and drive. I gues with the new Pannies, they will come up with a dual system for safety like most still photographers I know record simultaneously to two cards.

With that in effect the odds of a problem are probably around the same as what might happen with physical tape – and we’ve all experienced those too!

I will post back on my experiences. This time out is an experiment and I might be reverting to the tapes, but I want to give it a whirl and see if it saves time.

One big issue is juicing three Firestores for 10 hours. I bought three 90 and three 180 batteries (no snmall investment) and also some cheap rechargeable battery packs which go for 7 hours and plug to power the units DC. These also charge the drive battery at the saem time so I guess you just have to pick your times to juice up.

Peace,

K.

[Steve Eisen]

If you are doing start and stop recording, keep in mind the Firestore unit has a retro cache record feature. You can customize it with the Pro unit. This is extra time will be on your drives and not on your tape. Syncing could be a problem with the retro cache on.

Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Director-At-Large
Chicago Final Cut Pro Users Group

[Kevin]

Thank you Steve for posting back. Very good point. I’ve no idea how FCO would handle this. I wonder what timecode goes onthe retro cache pre-roll and how? I’ll call In Fpocus and ask about that.

Peace,

K.

[Tom Matthies]

I’ve been using a Firestore FS-3 for about two years now, and even though I always roll a tape for backup along with the FS-3, I haven’t actually had to use the tape for editing. Every DV project I’ve edited the last two years came off the FS-3’s HDD! Just drag and drop the clips into the Mac.
If you are concerned about matching Timecode, be sure to use the synchro-slave control mode to trigger the FS-4. I’m assuming here that the FS-4 has the same features as the FS-3. This will provide clips with the exact same time code as those clips on the tape.
As for syncing the cameras, setting the timecode to freerun and using the remote to start them in unison works well. The codes will be within a frame or so. Just make sure that you allow yourseld enough preroll when shooting time of day code.
Tom

[Kevin]

Hi Tom,

Many thianks for his great post.

I have a few followups if I may.

How do you typically combine all the individual clips you get from the Firestore drive before you edit? Subclip?

[Tom Matthies] “ust make sure that you allow yourseld enough preroll when shooting time of day code.”

What happens if I have to respond and shoot quite quickly without allowing preroll as often is the case. Is this more for the integrity of the TC on the drive or to ensure matching TC on tape and drive.

Also, In retro record mode, what happens with if you have it set to say 2 seconds. The video and TC on drive and tape would be diffferent?

Many thanks for sharing the benefot of your experience.

Peace,

K.

[Kevin]

Thatnks Steve,

Very good point. I’m sure at some point I would be incorporating a roving camera running good old fashioned tape. I guess though anything I’m going to sync edit in a multiclip would be continuous so I would just manually syn by in-point?

Peace,

K.