Strange halo effects when playback on HDTV

[Nick White]

No expert, except at finding trouble….so maybe I can start help. Bout time I paid a little back in:)

My pet bugbear is 25p frame jitter, caused by refresh rate etc. I can’t watch many TV shows any more….so I know how it feels when you discover a fault in the process, and it really bugs you. Often I feel that most people do not notice this stuff

My source is 1980 1020 p.

Firstly, you say that the PC shows no artefacts. I can actually see a very faint halo around your post of the PC snapshot.

Secondly, I know to my annoyance that HDMI – connected full HD TV shows those artefacts anyway, even on PC-generated text etc. It shows around areas of very high contrast. Most video gets away with it, but your source is particularly demanding.

I also notice a fair bit of moire in the posted snapshots, but I am not sure if that is from the video, or jpeg compression when you took the snap. The frame size of the jpg is large and the file size small, so the moire could be that.If you reckon that the moire in the sky is caused by the snapshot settings, try to save the snapshot with a much higher jpg quality. Hope I am not throwing confusion in here…..

I took some of my video, and rendered using your settings. There are a couple of light poles and trees up against the sky. They show a faint version of your problem, less because the contrast is not so great and the background lighter, which somewhat disguises the effect. I tried a Sony AVCHD render as well, with similar settings, and the halo is still there. This is all on my PC so far.I also did an x264 render with an external codec, and the same result.

To simplify things, I left DVD Arch out of it, and simply played the files to my HDMI – connected TV, using only a USB thumb drive to transfer. The halos are there, in several different formats of render.

So I have no solutions, have learned a couple of things, and AFAICS have at least simplified the problem a little.

There is a tute somewhere on the Web about the BEST way to render in Vegas. IT involves using external rendering as well as internal.

Having ranted on, and provided no more than more problems, I am now going to explore other renders, to see if this can be at least partially overcome.

[Dag Halvorsen]

The problem was finally solved!
Thank you all for valuable info. I appreciate it very much.
I must have overseen the sharpness control in the TV setup menu, or underesteimated it’s influence (can’t exactly remember).
Anyhow, the sharpness setting was only at “10”, on a scale from 0 to 30. Turning it down to zero, solved the whole problem! This setting really caused lot’s of frustration, and I found it hard to believe that it was so powerful, and causing that many artifacts.

The halo is always there, but now it’s extremely small, and at the same level as on the raw footage.
I tried the AVCHD codec when rendering, and it works fine, also with 3/2 audio. However, with mp4 file format selected, Vegas crashed repeatedly, after 2-3 seconds.

Now life is much easier 🙂

br Dag Halvorsen, Norway

[Nick White]

Glad you got it sorted.

BTW, I recently saw a youtube video about how to post the best video to YT. I feel that it actually gives very good results even for normal output. In fact I reckon it’s wasted on Youtube, which has a horrid system that seems to want to mangle whatever you give it! I believe they are trialling a new playback method that may help. Dunno….

It involves importing a codec group into Vegas, using that to export to uncompressed video, then using Handbrake and another codec to do the final compressed result. It does give a nice output if you are willing to put in the time.
Here is the tute
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWMX5lSvEgY

The biggest problem is the HUGE intermediate file that comes out of Vegas to handbrake….GB/minute of film. As it’s only for transfer, storage is the main problem. Don’t even try to play it on most PCs.

I take the requirement to set the project properties correctly with a pinch of salt, because as far as I can see this does not affect output or override the render settings, but only the editing experience.

Also, for trials I passed over the Levels and stuff, until I worked out whether the exercise was worth it.

Vegas has changed a bit, as far as I can see, from the way the tute shows. So rather than use their exact method, starting at 6:15 into the tute, instead of File Render or Make Movie, use Tools->Render to a New Track. That will give you the same GUI they show. It does create a separate file on HDD. Just make sure you ask to Open Folder when render is complete, or at least make sure you know the folder name.

Also, at about 7:15 into the tute, they say it a bit wrong about Handbrake. The control shown is not in the General Tab any more, but a separate Output Files Tab.

Hope that’s more use than nuisance! 🙂

Nick

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