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Strange Feild Order problems
I just cant work this out. It goes against everything I understand about this stuff. Bare with me…
This is my workflow from Avid Adrenaline to AE.
-digitise BetaSP material 1:1 (PAL, upper feild first)
-export footage as QT reference (avid DV setting turned off)
-bring footage into AE. AE always interprets these films as lower feild first, so change the feild order.
-render out in Lossless meridien codec, upper feild first.
-import back into avid, upper feild first.
This film plays right.
BUT… When I have to make something with DV footage…
-Digitise with AvidDV codec, 4:2:0 (lower feild first)
-export as QT reference (avid DV setting turned on)
-import into AE. AE interprets lower feild first.
Now comes the funny part. When I render a comp with DV footage in lossless meridien codec LOWER field first, and import into Avid with lower feild first, its wrong. Doesnt matter what my import settings in the avid are, it wont play properly. So, I render this DV comp out with UPPER feild first, and import upper feild first, it plays correctly.
Can anyone explain why this is so? Am I using the wrong codec for the DV stuff? How can DV footage rendered Upper play correctly?
I hope someone can steer me in the right direction.
thanks in advance
Simon -
5 Replies
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I’m not sure about PAL, but in NTSC-land … if you have interlaced 720×486 material centered in a 720×480 comp, the field order will flip. This is because the movie now starts 1 field higher (or lower) than it did before. So the footage needs to be moved up (or down – it doesn’t matter) one pixel to maintain field order.
So try moving the footage layer up or down one pixel.
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[Dave LaRonde] “If you see the footage moving forward, then back, then forward, then back, the field order isn’t right coming out of the Avid.”
Hmmmm. Normally I alt-double click the footage in the project window. This lets you step through the footage as well, and you can see when its jumping back and forth or not.
At the end of the line, I always have a good film in my avid timeline. The problem is when I have to share the spot with other machines over the network. No one knows whether to import my stuff upper or lower, and I cant tell them. And I cant explain why I cant tell them. -
FILM? You didn’t say anything about film!
No, no. “Film” as in the more generic cut-together-pictures-and-animations-type-film.
I am of course talking about PAL video. Perhaps I should have been more specific. -
[SRoughan] “Now comes the funny part. When I render a comp with DV footage in lossless meridien codec LOWER field first, and import into Avid with lower feild first, its wrong. Doesnt matter what my import settings in the avid are, it wont play properly. So, I render this DV comp out with UPPER feild first, and import upper feild first, it plays correctly.
Can anyone explain?It’s a known bug in the Avid software . What version are you on? Unfortunately, the PAL field issues pops up from time to time and this time it hasn’t been fixed. Render Upper Field First for PAL DV (even though that’s wrong) and import Upper Field First (even though that’s wrong) and you’ll have proper playback (as you’ve found).
When Avid releases another point update or the next version of Media Composer check the release notes to see if they’ve fixed this. If they have, upgrade to it and you can render like normal. If not, keep rendering and importing in Upper Field first.
Michael.
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[Dave LaRonde] “That’s a really weird bug in Avid. In a perverse way, it makes me feel better about editing on Apple’s bug-ridden Final Cut Pro.”
It’s not a problematic bug if you’re in NTSC land. 🙂
I’ve never worked in PAL, but apparently this wasn’t an issue in Xpress Pro 5.2/Media Composer 2.2, but with the release of 5.5/2.5 it reared its ugly head. Luckily there’s an easy workaround (change your field order when rendering), but if you have a stock library of renders that are DV LFF in PAL it’s time to rerender everything or roll back to an earlier version.
Honestly, though, I feel bad for our PAL friends. Between Avid’s field order problems and FCP’s issues (Color was struggling with PAL, wasn’t it?), PAL users aren’t getting much love. Someone from Europe needs to develop an NLE that everyone loves and adopts, then they can mess with the NTSC folks!
Michael.
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