Storage and video card solutions

[Shane Ross]

[Zach Smith] “I already have 1 250 gig sata2 drive and one sata2 500 gig drive in my second slot. I am planning on putting 2 750 gig sata2 drives in the last two slots. I am also planning on buying a Rocket Raid 3220 raid card and setting up a raid 5 array with those internal drives.”

You cannot connect those drives to a RocketRaid card. The drive sleds connect the drives to the logic board. There is no way to change that connection to a card that you install. If you want to use those drives with that card, you are going to need to put them in an external case.

[Zach Smith] “I am new to setting up a raid and want to know if all the drives need to be the same size or if I can have three different size drives.”

All the drives need to be of the same size and manufacturer…all IDENTICAL drives if you want a reliable raid.

[Zach Smith] “Also when setting this up I imagine I will have to reformat drives that are already in use. Is there an easy way to do this and not have to reinstall all my programs and info?”

If you OS is on one, yes. But it is never a wise idea to have your OS on a RAID, much less on one that you intend to capture media to. The OS and the media need to reside on separate drives.

[Zach Smith] “What are the benefits besides redundant backup of a raid 5 set up in Final Cut?”

If you lose a media drive, then you don’t lose your media. Typically a Raid 5 setup requires 4 to 5 drives, and one of those drives isn’t part of the raid, but the drive that acts as the backup drive. Performance is lost if you configure a Raid 5 setup.

[Zach Smith] “I am also upgrading my video card to a ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI) and am planning on hooking up an analog video monitor by using a DVI to SVideo adaptor. Any recommendations on analog video monitors?”

This is not the way to connect a monitor for use in judging color. Nope. You need to either route a DV signal thru your deck or camera, or get a capture card. If you captured all your footage via firewire, and just need output to a monitor, the Matrox MXO is a good solution. But if you are working with DV only, then routing thru your camera, or getting an ADVC-110 would be the better option.

Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net

[Zach Smith]

First off, thank you for the advice, I’m glad I didn’t purchase anything yet. You said that a Raid 5 setup would lower my performance, a friend told me that what you want to set up is a Raid 5-0 setup where the Raid 0 would back up my Raid 5, is this true? If I did do this would I want 8 identical drives, 4 for Raid 5 and 4 for Raid 0? If I was using 750 gig drives would this mean that I really would only have a 2.25 terabyte raid. What I am trying to do is have redundant backup and increase system performance, is this a good solution? My friend also told me that I should use the fiber channel card from Apple, is this better than the Rocket Raid card? Does this card work with Raid setups other than Xserve Raid? Which card do you recommend if I go fiber channel, dual channel or quad channel? And should I keep my 250 gig internal for just OS and Apps and keep 500 gig internal for backup of that and then keep media and session files on raid setup? What enclosure should I use for Raid setup?
As far as the analog monitor goes I will probably go for the ADVC-110 for outputting for reference now and later upgrade to the AJA HD/IO for an all around solution to many things. Which monitor do you recommend for viewing what I am working on in Final Cut? Thanks again for all the advice, my company is doing well at the moment and I want to strike while the iron is hot and while they allow me to purchase accordingly. Zach

[John Foley]

[Zach Smith] “a friend told me that what you want to set up is a Raid 5-0 setup where”
Zach – You are talking about twice the number of disks when doing a RAID 50. That is two identical RAID 5 volumes striped as RAID 0 by the computer to double the throughput from the drives.

[Zach Smith] “My friend also told me that I should use the fiber channel card from Apple, is this better than the Rocket Raid card?”

A Fiber Channel RAID is MUCH more expensive than a SATA based RAID. Part of the decision of which way to go is first- cost, then usage. If you don’t need a sustained 200 Mbytes per second for uncompressed HiDef, then XServe RAID with Fiber Channel is overkill.

A single external 4 drive SATA RAID setup with the RocketRaid card gives you around 240 Mbytes/sec over 2/3 of the volume before it starts to slow down to around 140 Mbytes per second. With their 2322 RocketRaid you can easily set up two X-4 enclosures with either 500 GB or 750GB drives and set both external to RAID 50 through the card.

http://www.thefinalcutstore.com

The link above is to my web store and information about this setup.

[Ben Holmes]

Zach

I recommend that you stop listening to your friend and get yourself to a Pro reseller who can match your storage requirements in terms of speed and size to your project requirements.

The decisions you have to make are more involved than whether to fit a fibre-channel card or not – the type of interface, be it firewire, SATA, SCSI or FC really depends on the type of media you work with and the quality and quantity of storage you need. We don’t know from your original questions what work you do on what formats. Knowing this will enable people here to give you more specific advice – although obviously everything that Shane said was totally correct.

Please don’t think I’m being flippant – I just get the feeling you need to get some more direction here before you make purchasing decisions, as storage is such a minefield.

Ben

Editec Broadcast Editing Ltd

EVS & FCP specialists for live OB operations.

New HD edit/slomo truck on the road this month. Dual FCP systems/6 slomo positions.

[Shane Ross]

Yes…listen to Ben. If you don’t know what you are doing, don’t listen to friends unless they know what they are doing. From the sound of what you said he told you, he doesn’t quite know what he is talking about. He knows enough to be dangerous.

Talk to a reseller…get the right info.

Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net

[Zach Smith]

Thank you guys for all the advice. I edit commercials in standard def, edit and composite music videos in sd, edit and composite short films in standard def, I am planning on making the transition to hidef and am trying to find the best way to do this. I am purchasing a HVX 200 and am planning to use the pro res 422 format for output, this is not for sure because I don’t know enough about it yet. So basically I work in SD now and am planning to convert to Hi Def in the near future, some of the pieces I have done have been an hour long so I am concerned about backup and performance. The media I have worked with in the past is Sony HDV down converted through camera to SD but I plan on using almost all Hi Def in the future. The advise that final one gave on a setup sounds like what I am looking for, but I have not had much luck with seagate drives. Does that setup have options on what drives to use?

[Zach Smith]

Also would one of you recommend a pro reseller to talk to?

[Ben Holmes]

Wow. That’s quite a broad brief. I’ll let others guide you on HDV, but I can tell you that any talk of Fibre Channel array is way over the top. You would only need so expensive a system for Uncompressed 10-Bit HD. To work with HDV or DVCProHD you could make do with a far less expensive and more reliable SATA array – something you could do internally on a Mac Pro. No one knows how ProRes will shake out – although for HD it looks pretty exciting.

Some of the storage ideas you have mentioned are $10K options, and are almost certainly overkill for what you suggest. Frankly, unless you are interested in Uncompressed HD I would set your sights lower.

Please – take some professional advice from a reseller who stocks a range of storage options. I am sure some of the forum member from your part of the world can help. Please fill out your profile to allow people to assist you further.

Good luck.

Ben

Editec Broadcast Editing Ltd

EVS & FCP specialists for live OB operations.

New HD edit/slomo truck on the road this month. Dual FCP systems/6 slomo positions.

[Shane Ross]

DVCPRO HD, what the HVX-200 shoots, is best edited in that format. Going ProRes, IMHO, is pointless. I edit that format natively, then output to HDCAM and D5 directly, with the use of a Kona 3 card by AJA.

For editing DVCPRO HD, all you need is a firewire 800 drive…a G-Raid or a CalDigit Firewire VR…or a nice eSATA Raid will do you better. CalDigit S2VR Duo is what I use for editing DVCPRO HD…there is also Sonnet and Firmtek options, Weibetek. The Sidecar by 3ware offers a Raid 5 eSATA solution…

Fibrechannel is way too much for this.

http://www.promax.com is a reseller of repute.

Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net

[Gary Adcock]

[Shane Ross] “From the sound of what you said he told you, he doesn’t quite know what he is talking about. He knows enough to be dangerous.”

and danger like that is going to cost you a lot of money and then your “friend”

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows