Sticking to rates when you’re poor and desperagte

[Walter Biscardi]

You’re right when you say she cannot rent the gear for $200. Tell her to find someone else to do the job. Then she’ll see how cheap your rate was.

I don’t know anyone who does 1/2 day rates anymore honestly. You’re being VERY VERY fair to her request, do not drop down any lower.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

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[Mark Suszko]

Stick to your guns, Alison. Once you get a rep for low-balling prices, it is very hard to change that perception, and it becomes self-fulfilling; people won’t consider you for bigger and better things, and the lowball stuff is all you’ll be left with. In some cases, if you want to work on some video project with an insufficient budget, it may be better to do the thing for free as pro-bono charity than to charge a too-low price and have expectations for the work you can’t deliver for the low price. Donated time really is perceived in a different way than minimum-wage for-hire work. Though I don’t think I’d do the lady’s seminar for free in any case.

I think if you can’t find new clients, BE your OWN client for a time: that is, produce something on your own that you might be able to sell or at least use as a demo and a way to build notoriety. A youtube video essay for example.

One example I like to throw out there from time to time is to go shoot a little documentary on some aspect of your town’s history. Make a big deal about the project, use the local paper and radio/tv news to get some coverage of what you’re doing. Meet with the local chamber of commerce and local historical society and get them on board with you. When the program’s done, generate more PR by hosting a public screening at the local library or historical society or whatever, and enter the thing in some online contests. Each time you do one of these things, turn it around as a PR opportunity and send out press releases to the local media. Set up an online store to sell DVD dubs, or use the self-publishing area of Amazon.com to sell your DVD from.

The whole time you’re working on this project, you are also out in public being seen doing the project, meeting and making contacts with local business people and the like. Building a reputation, building name recognition. SO when people DO have a paying project to do, they will remember you and look you up. Take all the time you need on the project, work on it in phases as the money allows. This kind of project is simple to do, it’s mostly editing photographic stills to voice-overs and adding in some sit-down interviews with oral historians and various townsfolk. I mean, you *could* really amp it up and add dramatic re-enactments and the like, which takes the PR value to a whole higher level, because it will involve a lot more people and that equals more networking… but you can do amazing things with just stills and a good narrative. For proof, rent “The Kid Stays In The Picture”. You can do something similar and leverage it into paying work.

Consider it an investment in yourself.

[Ron Lindeboom]

Mark is suggesting the very kind of project that Kathlyn and I did to help us rebound and rebuild after I was very sick for a while and had lost pretty much everything following surgery and a protracted recovery period. Like you, we were very desperate but I knew that if we started low-balling we would become our own worst enemies. So we came up with a project for the local zoo and we built it under contract for the city, in return that we could keep whatever advertising monies we gained from the project. They would get the project, we would get the monies. The gamble was that if we couldn’t sell much advertising, we would still have to complete the project or make ourselves subject to fraud charges. We weren’t going to do that and so it gave us a real motivation to get the project done. We pitched the thing to all of the local businesses — showing a mock-up we had created on spec and supported by a letter from the City Manager endorsing the project — and we told the businesses how the project would benefit local schools and students who could use it to learn about all of the animals in the local zoo.

As Mark said, rather than give us a reputation as low-ball artists, it gave us a reputation of being creative and resourceful in our local market and we picked up work for the local TV stations, utility companies, etc., etc., because of the quality of the work.

You will not recover from a reputation as one who low-balls. Do NOT go there. Go flip burgers at McDonalds first. Do anything else except low-ball. Hold your value. Build your name and reputation. You are going to do that anyway but what you do in the near future is going to determine what that reputation is.

Best regards,

Ron Lindeboom

Creativity is a type of learning process where the teacher and pupil are located in the same individual.

Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
– Antoine de Saint Exupéry

[Mark Suszko]

Here’s a newer clip from a guy that makes self-promotional films to advertise his compositing skills. You may remember his previous demo film called “405”. This new one I found to be very romantic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzFpg271sm8

Whatever time and money he put into this demo, it is going to come back to him many times in terms of new business and publicity.

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[Brendan Coots]

Hmmm, I guess I’m stuck being the lone contrarian here.

I agree in theory that a freelancer should stick to their rate for pride and reputation purposes. But 5 years from now when you’re working at Walmart because you couldn’t stick out this recession, how useful is that artistic pride and “reputation?” It is a tightrope walk, and if you simply cannot land paying work at your normal rate, you have three choices:

– commit to being a broke artist type
– go work for Walmart
– lower your rates

It sucks short term to lower prices, but virtually every business in the world feels the need to at some point or another just to keep their doors open. This is even more true if you’re a freelancing videographer – I get 5-10 emails a week from freelance videographers looking for work, because it’s such a competitive and crowded field.

Besides, I sincerely doubt anyone is going to be passing around the word that said artist is a lowballer because she agreed to lower prices during the worst recession in modern times. Context is everything here.

I could be wrong, there are some good points raised in this thread. Just my 2 cents.

Brendan Coots
Splitvision Digital
http://www.splitvisiondigital.com

[Bob Zelin]

Alison –
I know what your problem is. It’s not you – it’s your clients. You need better clients, so GO LOOK FOR THEM. There are real estate brokers that work in poor neighborhoods, and real estate brokers that work in Beverly Hills. The ones in Beverly Hills make more money. It’s that simple. I deal with LOTS of small companies. Due to the economy, I see many people can’t afford ANY equipment, and certainly can’t afford me. But SOME CLIENTS can afford me. How did I find these clients ? I pounded the pavement, solicited over and over, and eventually got them to hire me. I will still work for the smallest 1 man companies – but I know that they were struggling when things were good, and now that things are not good – they are struggling. Your clients offering you $200 probably can’t afford more than this. SOLUTION – FIND NEW CLIENTS. You are better off making zero money, looking for NEW clients that will pay you what you are worth, than wasting 8 hours doing a shoot with your equipment for $200.

No one ever said that business was easy (that is why we are all cranky). But don’t work for free. And if you HAVE to work for free – or a rediculously low rate – you might as well just get a staff job with a TV station, etc. and get some benefits.

People say “oh it’s easy for you to say that – you are not starving” – I always feel like I am about to starve (it’s a true sickness that I have – I need therapy for it, and more than just that) – but I ALWAYS feel like I am going out of business – I have felt this since 1982, and I constantly search for new clients, no matter how busy I am. Fear of not eating is a good motivator. Don’t sell yourself short.

bob Zelin

[Ron Lindeboom]

[Brendan Coots] “It sucks short term to lower prices, but virtually every business in the world feels the need to at some point or another just to keep their doors open. This is even more true if you’re a freelancing videographer – I get 5-10 emails a week from freelance videographers looking for work, because it’s such a competitive and crowded field. Besides, I sincerely doubt anyone is going to be passing around the word that said artist is a lowballer because she agreed to lower prices during the worst recession in modern times. Context is everything here.”

There is a law that I have seen over and over and it goes like this: Once you lower your price for a client, be prepared to have that price…forever. There is only one way to raise your price at that point and that is by using Zelin’s Law — get new clients. The old ones got your number and will keep you on peanut butter and saltine cracker sustenance forever.

I hate to disagree with Brendan but I am in a disagreeable sort today. ;o)

Was in court all day yesterday and I get like that when I am paying lawyers to fight with other lawyers — god, I hate ’em and their social preening and posing as they spend your money accomplishing little to nothing for months on end as they drive up their tab.

I got into the wrong industry…

Best regards,

Ron Lindeboom

Creativity is a type of learning process where the teacher and pupil are located in the same individual.

Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
– Antoine de Saint Exupéry

[Craig Seeman]

[Alison Grayson] “I quoted her a very low $200 for the half day, taking into consideration that there would be minimal set up, it would be an easy shoot, and I’m trying to network within her community.”
and

[Ron Lindeboom] “Once you lower your price for a client, be prepared to have that price…forever.”

Alison, to extend what Ron says, it’s not only your rate for that client that will remain low. You mention networking with her community. Given it’s her community, it’s likely you will get plenty of recommendations at an equally unsustainable low rate after they talk to her.

[Alison Grayson] “She actually asked what the bare minum price would be to compensate me for my time and the camera rental (I own my DVX100B, but thats irrelevant). She won’t be able to even rent a camera for a half day in my market for under $300.”

Show her a day rental rate and say based on that you’d charge $300 plus your labor for the same half day. Don’t budge on your rate and don’t even haggle because she may infer that you can be had because your still in dialogue.

[Alison Grayson] “She responded that she only wanted camera on sticks, and couldn’t do that amount.”

I’d respond that if she gets a lower rate she may be risking her project with someone who can’t match your skills, risk the ability to sell the product and end up costing more having to pay for another shoot with a qualified professional. Tell her if she cares about her project’s market viability paying a little extra for a professional will give her a better ROI (return on investment) and you’d gladly lend your experience to ensure the quality of her project. Then tell her you’d need to know within 48 hours (or some equivalent deadline) otherwise you can’t guarantee availability.

In short, do a hard sell and don’t sound desperate. When you point out that a wrong decision on her part will cost her more (possibly the entire project) than the illusory small savings and that she has a time limit to make a decision, she’ll take your offer seriously or she simply doesn’t value your services. If it’s the latter then her influence on “her community” present at the event will likely tie you into an unsustainable business model with her influence over the “network.”

Personal peeve but anyone who uses language like “couldn’t do that amount” either has no confidence that she can sell her product or is a lier. If she’s not willing to invest in her business she’s a client you don’t want to go near.

—–
If you ever fell you have work below your standard rate always make clear on the invoice the percentage discount below your standard rate.

[Rich Rubasch]

I’m all about a solution. Yes, like Bob says, keep pounding the pavement for those new clients. But for now, for this client, why not tell her that your rate is going to be $300 for the shoot. That includes you, your gear and tape stock. Ask her if she will pay you $150 before the shoot and the remaining $150 two weeks after the seminar.

If you had a small DVD duplicator and an inkjet disk printer, you could offer to make 50 copies or so right after the edit. In other words, sometimes it takes selling MORE than they asked for to make the sale, once they see how much you bring to the table.

She says it’s a lockoff. You tell her that you have a wireless mic that she will wear for excellent sound, and you will follow her on the stage so you don’t miss any of the action. You will get there early and shoot some crowd shots from the front, people walking in etc so she can cut that as an opener etc.

She will not want to shoot with anyone else!

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media

[Marshall Thompson]

As a pro producer with more than 20 years’ experience I have had my share of dry spells. Surprisingly, this year I am doing great I am happy to report. With the advent of FCP and cheap DV cameras, everyone is a producer. Thus, one has to market all the time to differentiate yourself from the 10,000 other hungry producers. Do you have a website? How about a group of your projects on YouTube prospective clients can look at? A race to the bottom of rates as a competitive strategy works for no one. That said, I do a fair amount of pro-bono work – always have – and have developed a niche practice in several areas, something you might consider. Mine include healthcare, energy both fossil fuels and alternative, aviation, education and government. Once you are established you will get referrals and repeat business. How do you present yourself? Do you look like a homeless bum or do you dress and present yourself as a professional. Do you smoke? This is a big turn off to many clients. How’s the quality of your language? Do you write for your clients? Writing is a very important skill, absolutely essential. It is NOT all about the technology, it is all about telling stories. Forget about technology groups (sorry COW!), learn something about business and marketing. Marketing is the single most important aspect of your work, far more important than learning how to shoot and edit because, as you have learned, any bum will whore themselves out for $200.00 or $300.00 a day with gear.