Spec’ing out SAN system, would love feedback. . .

[Bob Zelin]

Thanks to these forums and Bob’s tutorial about how to put together an affordable SAN system, I’ve been able to spec out a SAN that my company can afford, so thanks to everyone’s contributions on these forums. –

REPLY – my article is not a bible on how to do it.

ATTO R380
REPLY – this is the correct product for both your storage, and your LTO drive.

-or-
HighPoint RocketRAID 4322 (for the RAID) + ATTO H380 (for the LTO)
REPLY – don’t be stupid. You pick ATTO or Areca, never Highpoint.

I’ve read nothing but praise for HighPoint’s RAID controller, but unfortunately it doesn’t support tape. The ATTO R380 does support tape, but it has half the amount of RAM (256MB) as HighPoint’s card (512MB). For the price of the R380, I can get the HighPoint card and the ATTO H380 to take care of the LTO. Is that crazy to get two separate SAS cards, or does this make sense?

REPLY – where have you read praise for Highpoint other than BareFeats? The ATTO R380 does support tape, and specifically the LTO4 from HP. If you start looking to save money every step of the way, nothing will work.

UPS???
I don’t even know where to start with a UPS. Is 5–10 minutes of backup time sufficient, or do I need to spring for a more beefy UPS?

Reply –
APC Smart UPS 1500 RM2U – B&H part # AP1500RM

Rack???
I can only seem to find super expensive racks. I just have the switch, the RAID, the LTO, and the Mac Pro to house. Does anyone have suggestions for that?

REPLY – expensive ? Raxxess, sold by B&H and all other mail order companies. A 42 rack unit 20″ deep rack is $200. You can get this rack in a 30″ deep version, which I used for Fox Sports for their system.

OS X Server?
I know this setup does not require the server software, but I’m wondering what the benefits would be of getting OS X Server? The company has nine employees right now and is growing, so would the server software be helpful now and/or down the road?

REPLY – OS-X will run up to 10 AFP clients. After that you will need to run NFS. If you don’t want to deal with this, run OS-X Server. I have no idea how efficiently this type of system will run with more than 10 clients anyway. Even if you get a 48 port Small Tree switch, and OS-X Server, the system will never support 20 full time DVCProHD clients.

I went with HP for the LTO because I hear they have better support for the Mac. The same reason for getting a ATTO SAS card as opposed to LSI for the LTO. I’m going to use Small Tree for the network gear like the GbE switch and the NIC for the “server” and Tiger’s MetaLAN software to direct the traffic.
REPLY – you use the PEG6 card and the ES4524D switch. There may be a new switch coming soon. The Quantum requires the LSI card, the HP requires the R380 card. The Highpoint – ha ha.

You can go to my website to get more details, and contact me off list if you wish for more info.

Bob Zelin

[Bob Zelin]

I want to repeat that my article is not an accurate “bible” of how to do this. It’s just an overview.

Bob Zelin

[Ben Estabrook]

Great, thanks for the feedback, Bob. Goes to show it’s helpful to ask around. The RedUser forums seemed to like the HighPoint card, but sounds like the ATTO card is a better solution for those who are doing long form projects (like us).

I also talked to the folks at Maxx Digital and they were super helpful and knowledgeable. I’ll definitely consider one of their expando solutions.

Thanks again for your time and input,
Ben

[Eric Hansen]

bob said: OS-X will run up to 10 AFP clients. After that you will need to run NFS. If you don’t want to deal with this, run OS-X Server. I have no idea how efficiently this type of system will run with more than 10 clients anyway. Even if you get a 48 port Small Tree switch, and OS-X Server, the system will never support 20 full time DVCProHD clients.

interesting, that’s the first time i’ve read hard numbers on what AFP supports in OS X vs Server. bob, does this mean that you’re using OS X Server in your larger installations?

e

Eric Hansen, The Audio Visual Plumber – http://www.avplumber.com

[Bob Zelin]

there are no “larger” installations. Anyone with more than 10 edit systems isn’t looking for a low budget solution. I never use OS-X Server (although server will support unlimited clients). These low end systems won’t run 20 clients – and who do you know, other than Bunim Murray in LA, and a larger TV station has more than 10 edit rooms ? “Big companies” in Florida have 4-5 rooms, and I did one system in NY with 10 systems, and one system in Philly with 12 systems – this is how I know about NFS and the limitation.

People with 20 FCP clients are BIG companies, and they are not looking for a budget solution like this.

Bob Zelin

[Eric Hansen]

bob said – “Anyone with more than 10 edit systems isn’t looking for a low budget solution.”

good point. 10 full edit systems is a lot. but in both the Xsan systems and the Ethernet systems i’ve worked on, there may only be 4 or 5 full edit suites, but there are also editor’s laptops in each suite, secondary systems for logging or ingesting footage, a DVD duper, a few office computers, etc. all of these people want access to the SAN to varying degrees. whether it’s to play footage back for logging or viewing, transferring files to or from the SAN, graphics work, etc. for these systems i created 2 Ethernet networks: one Gigabit, jumbo frames, flow control, static IPs on a 10.x.x.x network (the high-speed network for the edit systems), and another general office network with auto-negotiation on 192.168.1.x. the SAN is available on both of these networks, to all the users in the office. so yeah, there may only be 4 or 5 edit systems, but there could easily be 15 total computers in such an office, with AFP running the show. that’s why i was curious about the number.

btw, i don’t know if this has been the case with your clients, but with every new install i spec, people are requesting an iMac along with the Mac Pro in every edit suite, along with at least 2 additional ethernet lines in each suite for laptops or other portables. i guess they want to keep their editors working through “render-time” and their clients love the fact they can plug their laptops in and play footage back. its kind of funny seeing production facilities go from completely wired for Ethernet, to wireless, and now back to wired.

sorry, a bit OT

e

Eric Hansen, The Audio Visual Plumber – http://www.avplumber.com

[Bob Zelin]

Eric –
I see this too, especially the iMAC in every FCP MAC Pro suite.
I run less and less coax and audio cable these days, and more and more CAT5e. Our changing business. And we have to keep up, and keep learning. And watch the “old guys” die out again (and I am one of those old guys).

Bob Zelin