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Sound recorder
Hello everyone,
I made a feature documentary last year mostly with a rode video mic on a canon 5d and the sennheiser 416 on a dvx100a for sound.
Of course the sound on the 5d was horrible. The sound on the dvx100a +416 was very very good.
Which was very surprising to me so much as to think that I could actually use the dvx100 for recorder. If it did’t use tapes and was digital I would probably do that.So, nowadays I don’t use the dvx100a anymore. Hell, who shoots dv anymore? So i am stuck with the 5d for now until I replace it with another affordable HD, perhaps mark iii, if the magic lantern + Raw wll work or even Blackmagic production camera. We’ll see.
To the above setup I am looking to add a sound recorder that will be decent enough for years to come. At first I was looking at the Tascam dr-60d. I almost bought it since I am shooting on DSLR. Then i figured out that all this DSLR-targeted promotion makes no sense (to me). I would *never* attach the dr-60d to the bottom of the dslr and go on shooting. I’d need a rig. But I can put ANY small sized portable recorder on a rig. Or i’d hang it on my neck (for one man stuff) or give it to the recordist/booman for bigger projects.
With that in mind plus the fact that I don’t like the digital knobs instead of potentiometers, plus the fact that from the reviews so far I haven’t read anyone been overly enthusiastic, I thought I would get something tried, proved and with a different form factor. This design realy makes no other sense than sticking the camera on legs without moving it.
So for my budget I am torn between one of these:
a) Marantz pmd661 mkii (i need to put my hand very very deep for that one but I am willing to do it if it is really worth the extra money)
b)Roland R26 (read great things about it)
c)Tascam dr-60d (only if i get convinced that it’s worth getting it)
d) any other NOT more expensive than Marantz.For the moment I am using Rode video mic which i find decent but thinking of the purchasing later the ntg2 or 3 or 416. So for now, perhaps it doesn’t make a difference to have the videomic on marantz but I am shooting a documentary and a feature film in the fall so I need to get something that can perhaps expand.
I’ve read great reviews that one could put a mix pre from sound devices and get great results.I am trying to build up gear for independent short and feature films, fiction and documentary as I put the numbers now it makes no sense to hire equipment where I live, in Norway.
Many thanks for your time and help.
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22 Replies
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I don’t know much about the Rode video mic but I’m sure it will do the job it was designed for. I’ve gotten vey nice acceptable sound from a 5d. It’s all a matter of setting the levels on the 5d. The 5d preamps are not the best so if you keep the 5d peaks at about -12 on the meters you should be fine.
Eric
“I push the RECORD button and hope for the best”
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Hello Nikos and welcome to the Cow Audio Forum.
I’m told the 5D Mk iii audio is noticeably better than the Mk ii, but I have not made a test yet.
The NTG-3 is worth the extra money for a shotgun. You’ll also benefit from a non-interference tube boom mic like a Audio Technica AT4053b or Audix SCX-1HC.
Your audio will not improve much until you start using a boom mic and getting closer to your talent. A camera mounted mic, no matter how good, just won’t do it.
Unlike cameras, audio gear lasts a long time. If you’re doing professional work you can’t afford to buy cheap.
Regards,
Ty Ford
Cow Audio Forum LeaderWant better production audio?: Ty Ford’s Audio Bootcamp Field Guide
Ty Ford Blog: Ty Ford’s Blog -
Thank you both.
I am planning to use boom for the fiction work but mounted mic on camera for static interviews.
Actually the main reason i am considering a better recorder than, say, a preamp to go straight to camera is for the fiction work. Boom is a necessity for sure. Also because I want to have room to expand.The reason I am a bit confused with all these recorder options is that as filmmakers we do not have the expertise that you audio guys have. And trying to find a decent budget solution makes things even harder. It is a bit embarrassing that in the last 5(?) years many independent people bought into the H4n hype. And I mean some professional sound guys too. From what I understand the pre amp quality on H4n leaves a lot to be desired.
So, in any case an external recorder is a must even if a will get a mark3 or a BM production camera or whatever in the future. I also believe that audio equipment are not so easy disposable as all these image capture devices we get. And that is why I am looking for the best possible quality for my budget.
I’ll have to look into the non-interference tube boom mics , I don’t know much about these but I am definetely thinking about ntg3 as I ‘ve read great things.
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Hello Nikos,
This may help you with understanding about mics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaUSXP-a3hA
You can use a locked down boom or lav for a static interview. It will greatly improve the quality of your sound.
Here’s how to rig the boom. https://www.dropbox.com/s/2gl46vmss7gpx9x/Ty%27s%20Boom.mov
You have to download this video to see it. DropBox will play the audio, but not the video.
Regards,
Ty Ford
Want better production audio?: Ty Ford’s Audio Bootcamp Field Guide
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Thanks Ty !!
Quite a difference between the 416 and the hypercardioid .. And I believed I could get away with just an NTG3 !! I think i will seriously look into the possibility of getting a system mic with 2-3 different polar patterns. Perhaps sennheiser ME/K6.
What about the recorders. Which one from the ones I mentioned would you choose?
Many thanks again.
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I like the look of the Tascam DR-100mkII.
Chris
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You will be disappointed by the mE/K6. That’s for student films. The NTG3 is much better than that.
The AKG BLue Line may be an option, if they are still around.
Regards,
Ty Ford
Cow Audio Forum LeaderWant better production audio?: Ty Ford’s Audio Bootcamp Field Guide
Ty Ford Blog: Ty Ford’s Blog -
I had the impression that it’s not a good idea to use a shotgun and that it’s better to have a less directional mic for indoors.
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Nikos,
It is not a good idea to use a shotgun indoors or out of doors in any highly reflective environment.
Did my video not make that clear?
Regards,
Ty Ford
Cow Audio Forum LeaderWant better production audio?: Ty Ford’s Audio Bootcamp Field Guide
Ty Ford Blog: Ty Ford’s Blog -
Ty, yes it was perfectly clear.
That is why i started thinking to go modular… up to now I thought that a shotgun could be used all around.On the other hand if no modular system can give a decent broadcasting quality, I guess I’ll have to get the ntg3 after all plus the Audix SCX1/HC for indoors.
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