SONY SRW-5800

[Mads Nybo jørgensen]

Hey Paul,

That takes me back years, although never got a lot of experience on the SRW’s.

A quick look at the manual I wonder whether your VTR thinks that it is part of an editing chain?
Could be a remote switch, or a cable input on the back of the VTR.

Found this in the manual on Page 142 – menu list.

Maybe a good place to start?

Atb
Mads

[Paul Thurston]

Hey Mads,

I really appreciate your insight. I had reviewed that item on the menu many times and I do confirm that menu item 212 is on default, [MAN] “The recorder is not forcibly switched to E-E mode.” The machine is presently not connected to any other video machine in any way.

At the end I figured perhaps a physical switch in some internal card is making this happen, but I didn’t find any such switch described in any of the maintenance or installation manuals.

[Mads Nybo jørgensen]

Hey Paul,

With regard to the serial 12,000 number change, I found this note on play-back:

When the serial number of this unit is lower than 12001
Double-speed playback requires the HKSR-5803HQ
(option).
• When the serial number of this unit is 12001 or higher
Double-speed playback is standard and does not require
the HKSR-5803HQ (option).
• The DIGITAL I/O (AES/EBU) INPUT/OUTPUT
connectors cannot be used for double-speed playback/
recording.
• Only a limited number of devices can support signals
processed for double-speed playback.

And:

HKSR-5802 Digital Betacam/HDCAM Processor
Board
This allows you to play back Digital Betacam or HDCAM
tapes and output SD and HD signals.
When the system is operated in 4:4:4 mode, up conversion
of the output to HD signals are possible as follows,
depending on the system setting.
1080: Up conversion to 1080.
720: Up conversion to 720P.
When the system is operated in 4:4:4 mode, no upconverted
HD output can be obtained.

Based on this I’m wondering whether you are doing a up-convert and/or cross-convert?
Like a NTSC Digital Betacam 30 fps to HD 23.97fps?

You might already have looked at this menu, but repeating just in case:

The audio signal output status is specified by the following
settings of the VTR SETUP menu item 017 “PB/EE
SELECT MENU”.
EE: The input audio is always output.
MU: The audio output is always turned off.
PB: The playback signal is always output.

If brave, you could consider a “Factory Reset”, but is likely to come with a “Point of NO Return” attched…

If all of that fails, it may be a faulty switch or a sticky button that needs a good clean.

Although, if you “can hear through the AES/EBU out and the SDI embedded audio the tapes’ audio.” then it might just be easier not to fix something that is not broke, although you can’t use the Phones out. At least you’ll be able to continue to do the work…

Hope that this helps?

atb
Mads

[Paul Thurston]

Hey Mads,

Thanks for your thoughtful suggestions. Indeed, I do confirm it is setup as 4:2:2 1080i at 29.97 fps and the Digital Betacam tape also plays back at 29.97i fps. The machine is up converting the standard definition images correctly also to 4:2:2 1080i at 29.97 fps. The sync is Tri level sync at 29.97i and the SRW-5800 is setup to sync to that when turned on.

I also had thoroughly checked out menu item 017 which you mentioned. This item has six submenu items where you can change E-E/E-E to PB (playback.) Sadly, none of those allow changes as I’ve observed here. The audio out via AES/EBU and the embedded audio via SDI out do output the tape’s audio.

I thought about a factory reset, but indeed as you mentioned, it’s a step of no return, and why do that if everything else works. But I may have to. What can I say; it’s only a thousand+ items that need to be reviewed in the various menus. Mere humans have done this before.

But having said that, it’s really such a curious thing that somebody would program this change without informing users in an updated user manual. I would have liked to have read about this before hand.

[Mads Nybo jørgensen]

Hey Paul,

Some 24 years ago I had one of the first tri-level sync generators. They are good fun, intended back then to harm your pocket and a box that no-one understood. Except that it does something at 24fps…

A trick question for you: What happens if you disconnect the tri-level, and just treat the 29.97fps as a normal 29.97fps with no “converter” box inbetween?

What might happen is that your pro-audio out follows the video, but the “conversion” to analogue out audio to head-phones can not cope.

I know – this shouldn’t be the issue, but do humour me 😉

Atb
Mads

[Paul Thurston]

Hey Mads,

The change made no difference. With or without Tri-level Sync the issue remained.

[Mads Nybo jørgensen]

Hey Paul,

Admittedly I am stabbing in the dark here as I don’t have a deck in front of me.
And, once you find the solution, it is likely to be something very simple.

A couple more things to try.
Is the VTR set to REC INHIBIT ON?
(PDF page 22 in manual: Toggling between lit/flashing settings is possible using the VTR SETUP menu item 104 “REC INHIBIT LAMP FLASHING”.)

“5-1-2 Selecting Audio Signals” (Pdf page 118 & 119)

Selecting audio signals to be monitored With the MONITOR L or R buttons at the upper left of the control panel, switch the audio signal output from the PHONES jack and MONITOR OUTPUT L/R connectors as follows.
1. Check the audio level display area in the color display, and make sure that the unit is not in the REC LEVEL/PB LEVEL setting state (with red or blue vertical lines appearing on the left and right of the audio level meter).

The channels for which the signals are currently being monitored are shown by reverse video characters “L” and “R” below the audio level meter.

2. Press the buttons corresponding to each channel, to light the L/R reverse video indications below the audio level meter, and specify channels 1 to 12 with the MONITOR L or R button (both L and R can also be specified).

This setting can also be made using the VTR SETUP menu items 807 “AUDIO MONITOR-L select” and 808 “AUDIO MONITOR-R select”.

This hidden “text” on page 119 might be a red herring, but does suggest that under certain circumstances: If the audio is digital, it will not play on the analogue monitoring….

• The following processes are performed for the selected channels.
– For the input signal, the setting of the VTR SETUP menu item 831 “NON AUDIO SELECT” takes
precedence over that of the menu item 830 “AUDIO INPUT SELECT”.
– For the audio level meters, the whole region lights. Also, below the input signal display, the word “DATA” appears in white.
– The analog audio outputs (output to the MONITOR OUTPUT connector and the PHONES jack) are turned off.
– The audio recording level adjustment itself is possible for the channel for which “NON AUDIO” is selected, but the setting does not affect the recording or playback of DATA.
– Non-audio input channels are selected in stereo pairs.
• When the VTR SETUP menu item 842 “AUDIO INPUT/OUTPUT SAMPLING FREQUENCY” is set to
“96K”, recording/playback of non-audio data cannot be performed.

Page 129:

5-4-5 Playing Back Non-audio Data

Non-audio data recorded on a tape is detected automatically and played back.

When non-audio data is being played back:
• Below the input display in the audio level meter section, the DATA mark lights in white.
• For the audio level meters, all regions light.
• The analog audio outputs (output to the MONITOR OUTPUT connector and the PHONES jack) are turned off.
• The audio output level can be adjusted during non-audio data playback, but output non-audio data is not affected.

Out of interest, is the F6 INS AUDIO button on or off?

On page 137 it describes the editing process using the VTR, which if the wrong buttons are pressed that your VTR could think that it was doing.

Monitoring signals during previewing

During previewing, you can monitor the following video and audio signals on a monitor connected to the recorder VTR:
• Between preroll and IN points: Playback signal of the recorder VTR can be monitored.
• Between IN and OUT points: Playback signal of the player VTR can be monitored in E-E mode.
• Between OUT and post-roll points: Playback signal of the recorder VTR can be monitored.

Depending on the above, it is worth checking menu:

322 AUDIO PREVIEW MODE

On top of that any of the 800 menu items from 807 onwards, could be interesting.

However, if not broke, do not fix it…

Hope this might help.

Atb

Mads

[Paul Thurston]

Hey Mads,

I’m going to check your suggestions out and I’ll let you know when I have results.