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SONY EX-1 Footage Final Render 8Bit or 10Bit?
Hi Everybody,
I am finishing a rock concert, which was film on the SONY EX1 (4 of them), the Color Grading was done with a mix of 3Way Color Corrector and MAgic Bullet Looks.
Now, my question: Is there a significant difference in rendering the timeline in 8Bit or 10Bit YUV in this case?
The TL settings are XDCAM 35MB/s 1920by1080.The final output will go on a regular DVD.
The difference in rendering is enormous, so if the difference on the EX 1 Material is rather small between 8 and 10bit, I guess I’d go for 8Bit.
Any thoughts on this one?
Thanx a lot.Greetings,
Sascha
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22 Replies
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– If you have to crunch your picture, do it only once: When you make the MPEG-2 for the DVD.
– If you export XDCAM and then make the MPEG-2, you crunch your picture twice (two consecutive MPEG-2 compressions).
– Without regard of the codec/bit-depth of your sequence, “High Precision makes a more precise rendering.
– Rendering to Prores will be faster than to XDCAM (LGOP), even if you set “High Precision”.
Half of my jobs are about making DVDs from EX-1 footage. I always render to Prores and with “High Precisions”. The difference in quality versus exporting 8b without “High Precision” is VERY noticeable, most of all when you are applying filters like Magic Bullet.
Sascha, the point is to try to work as much uncompressed as you can until you need to compress for delivery (DVD, Web,..).
rafael -
Hi Rafa,
first thanx for the nice mail reply. Gonna answer you in detail soon, just in the middle of finishing two projects.
Regarding my question:
Right now the setting of my timeline were:
-Quicktime video settings: XDCAM 1080p25, field dominance none, aspect ratio square
-Video processing 8bit YUV (will set this still to high precision)
– and yes prores under: “Render Control” Tab -> Codec: Apple ProRes for XDCAM FootageCan I export in those settings or you think I should put the Quicktime video settings to ProRes as well? I thought when I render and set it to ProRes in the Render Control Tab it will be enough?
The resizing I usually do in After Effects, since it does a great job, or in Compressor.
Greetings,
Sascha
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[Sascha Engel] “- and yes prores under: “Render Control” Tab -> Codec: Apple ProRes for XDCAM Footage”
This “useful”(?) option in the end is a bit of a trap, because when you export, the Prores files are converted to XDCAM which is your sequence codec. So things end up re-compressed.Unless you are too pressed, I would recommend you the way I told you.
It probably will take longer to export your sequence to XDCAM than re-render to Prores/high Precision and the results won’t ever be the same.
MagicBullet can’t achieve the same in 8b than in 10b Floating Point.[Sascha Engel] “The resizing I usually do in After Effects, since it does a great job, or in Compressor.”
Whichever of both applications you use for the downscaling, export Prores. If in AE, set the rendering at 18b. If in Compressor, set the “Frame Control ON”.Sascha, the extra time that you spend in making a better process is well paid by the final result.
Cheers,
rafa -
I know, but sometimes the factor time is killing you and I do not have a 12 Core Desktop – unfortunately 😉
So, Best things to do would be:– Set my timeline options to ProsRes and render everything in Hi Precision YUV?
Does it matter that the actual footage on the timeline is still XDCAM Codec?
Sascha
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Hi Rafa,
one more question: If I set it to ProRes, will ProRes LT do? Because of space issue on HD.
Is there a huge difference in Footage from the SONY? I know, with the 5D there is, but with the AVCHD Codec, PorRes LT usually is good enough.Sascha
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[Sascha Engel] “with the AVCHD Codec, PorRes LT usually is good enough.”
What is good enough Sascha? Is throwing out half your video information satisfactory?
Do you really like the concept of spending all your time to perfect a project knowing that you chucked out half the video information with the click of a button just to save a few $$$ on an extra hard drive?
David Roth Weiss
ProMax Systems
Burbank
DRW@ProMax.com
http://www.ProMax.com
Sales | Integration | SupportDavid is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.
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Sascha,
Why not pick some visually intensive segments of the concert (like where there are a lot of fast lighting changes) and do some tests with different settings to see if there is a difference or not? Sometimes different settings result in a visual loss of info and sometimes they result in just an ‘on paper’ loss of info (where technically data has been lost but visually it looks exactly the same).
David,
Why the hate for LT? I’ve used LT in workflows where I’ve personally tested LT footage against regular ProRes (used scopes, broadcast monitor and large client monitor for evaluation) and found no difference in quality for our particular needs (including broadcast). And before you accuse us of being cheap, we generated about 2-3 TB a week of new data and upgrading an 40TB Xsan w/25 clients attached isn’t an inexpensive process.LT won’t hold up as well when it comes to processing (like I wouldn’t use LT for green screen) but for our workflow of record LT, minimal if any post processing, layoff to HDCAM, it works great.
-Andrew
2.9 GHz 8-core (4,1), FCP 7.0.3, 10.6.6
Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse (7.9.5) -
Well, if I really see a difference, of course I am not willing to compromise, but I just did a projects shot on the AF101 (AVCHD Files) and it looks great in ProRes LT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tb-bL6G97Y
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You’re looking at a first gen copy now. Twenty years from now, when someone is doing a retrospective of your work on a 10 generation copy it won’t look as good as iit would if you’d avoid chucking out 50% of the info.
David Roth Weiss
ProMax Systems
Burbank
DRW@ProMax.com
http://www.ProMax.com
Sales | Integration | SupportDavid is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.
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[Andrew Kimery] “David,
Why the hate for LT? I’ve used LT in workflows where I’ve personally tested LT footage against regular ProRes (used scopes, broadcast monitor and large client monitor for evaluation) and found no difference in quality for our particular needs (including broadcast).”It’s my age and experience speaking here Andrew, not any personal hatred for LT.
I’ve actually been around long enough to see the results of a decision like Sascha’s years afterward.
I assure you, no one in the future, years from now, will ever complain that Sascha’s master was too good, if he goes with ProRes 422. However, if he uses LT, someone, probably Sascha himself, will complain if the master or its copies aren’t as good as they should be.
I’ve seen the same type of mistake made many, many times over the years…
David Roth Weiss
ProMax Systems
Burbank
DRW@ProMax.com
http://www.ProMax.com
Sales | Integration | SupportDavid is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.
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