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Sony AVCHD or Main Concept MPG2 render from a DV master. Options?
Hi, people.
I have a DV Sony handycam master, a club concert gig with some bright lights and black spaces and scenes. (80 minutes, size: 14 GB)
I avoid to transfer to DVD waiting to do to a Blu Ray.
I want to preserve same quality as the original master (if I could find a way to do menus over DV master I will be happy ever after).
Back to the point.
I tried to render the DV movie with newest Nero, but I have to abort it as it showed me a 10 days of processing time!!!! What?!!!
Then I moved to Vegas (Vegas Movie Studio HD 11 Platinum).
First, I used the maximum Sony AVC template offered (1920×1080, 60i, 16 mbps) and after 26 hrs. of processing, results were a file of 8 Gb only (for a disc capability of 23 gb, too small). I do not like the quality results either. I can see differences with the original DV (most noticeable are color saturation and some artifacts in black spaces, and some grain over the whole picture).
Then I tried with maximum Main Concept MPG2 template (1920×1080, 60i, 25 mbps). More or less same processing time 24 hrs or so, but results are still far away from DV master. I get a file of 14 GB (same as original DV master), but you can tell it looks like an old VHS 2nd. gen transfer (not the same but you can figure what I am trying to tell).
Later I tweaked the Main Concept template to an average bitrate of 33 mbps, considering that maximum bitrate allowed in BD is around 40 mbps. But, still results are not satisfaying.
I know that a processing degradation is in the middle of all of this, but using best coding methods and maximum bitrates I can’t believe I can not achieve a Blu ray file almost identical to the original DV master, if not just “identical”.
Even I am considering that a more ordinary DVD transfer would be even more enyoable that the 3 files already produced in AVCHD/MPG2 for a Blu Ray disc.
So, after this, maybe some of you can recommend me what codec or method or full software could be better to get the best results. The aim is high, I know: To get a file practically identical to the original DV.
If I had an original file whose transfer rate is only 4 mbps and only 14 gbs in size, Why I doubled the size, multiplied the transfer rate for 4 or 6 times, and still get a “ordinary copy”?.
Any idea will be welcome. I spent a whole week waiting for all the processing time to get these “forgetable” Blu ray compliant files, not too different to what a DVD can offer for less pain. -
6 Replies
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You are losing quality because you are re-encoding. Why can’t you just save the master file?
Steve Mann
MannMade Digital Video
http://www.mmdv.com -
I always keep the DV format file.
Over the past eight years I’ve gone back and used the DV file several times (I had them backed up at one point on two sets of 100+ DVDs). I now have them on Blu-ray and external hard discs – three hard discs; one at home, one at work, and one at a relatives.
I’ve been converting my DV to 1920x1080i 29.97fps 16MBps AVC with uncompressed audio (wav). I currently have a post to see if someone has any thoughts on rendering to 720x480i AVC, and letting the Blu-ray player or TV do the conversion to 1080i.
My understanding is that AVC gives a better result than Mpeg-2 for the same file size; hence I use AVC.
I’m sure you’re aware of this, but it wasn’t clear from your post: While doing your tests you can just render a short section and see how it looks.
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[Stephen Mann] “You are losing quality because you are re-encoding.”
Well, I know that.
[Stephen Mann] “Why can’t you just save the master file?”
Thank you stephen.
I have the original tape, and I have already a DV copy of it ina BD disc. But you’ll never playback a DV file again in your living room device (DVD/BD player, if any can playback DV codec, which I doubt, not mine as far as I know)if you have to scroll de search bar to catch a given part of the concert recorded.
I just want to have a disc that you can throw into a machine (Blu ray player or whatever) and anybody can watch it, with virtually no quality loss.
That’s why I said in part of the post that if there is only a way to add menus in a DV file that can be read in a Blu ray machine, that will be “my heaven”.
As I can not find some of the kind yet, I tried the AVCHD conversion, hoping a better transfer than an ordinary DVD. But I discover that, even using best templates, degradation is still there in a noticeable way. So I am a bit surprised. Maybe I am still a little naive.
Anyway, I can accept any idea, no matter how weird it can sound.
Thank you. -
[Robert Lin] “My understanding is that AVC gives a better result than Mpeg-2 for the same file size; hence I use AVC.
I’m sure you’re aware of this, but it wasn’t clear from your post: While doing your tests you can just render a short section and see how it looks”
Thank you Robert.
I rendered the whole concert because I suposed that it will be “the deal” in the first try. To my surprised that was not the case.
Checking the 3 files already produced, I think I agree with you that AVCHD could looks a little better than MPG2 file. Even, last MPG2 file tweaked to keep a 33 mbps average transfer rate, with I-frames set to 32 value, and B-frame to 7 value, resulted in an awful big 18 GB file that looks like an old VCD enconding (not joking, full of big squares on the whole file). Obviously, I did something wrong when I tweaked the Main Concept MPG2 template, but I’m not sure where is the big mistake.
I will try now tweaking the Sony AVCHD 16 mbps template to rise the final file from the first 8 Gb file produced to a more heavy (less compressed) file. Let’s see what happens. It will take another full day or so of processing. -
Maybe I don’t understand the question.
If you intend to re-edit then save the original DV files. Any playable format –any playable format– will be compressed and a poor candidate for further editing.
Steve Mann
MannMade Digital Video
http://www.mmdv.com -
[Stephen Mann] “Any playable format -any playable format- will be compressed and a poor candidate for further editing”
I do not want to do any edition later. Just the plain concert from beginning to the end, one cam, no fuss. I will just mark the chapters later and a menu.
Stephen, I just want to know if there is any AVCHD configuration that do not degradate the original DV file. That was what I supposed before start with this: AVCHD won’t show the grade of degradation that usually shows DVD. I was wrong, I guess. Too much hype with the Hi Def BD format, but it can not keep a simple DV image quality safe.
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