Sony AVC vs. Main Concept AVC

[Steve Rhoden]

Where did you get this information?
And what was the issue?

Steve Rhoden
(Cow Leader)
Film Editor & Compositor.
Filmex Creative Media.
https://www.facebook.com/FilmexCreativeMedia
1-876-832-4956

[Mike Thomas ii]

^Build 486 release notes under Known Issues

https://dspcdn.sonycreativesoftware.com/releasenotes/vegaspro12.0.486_readme_enu.htm

[John Rofrano]

[Mike Thomas II] “^Build 486 release notes under Known Issues”

It says:

You may not be able to render files larger than 4 GB using some combinations of settings in the Sony AVC encoder.

Which says that you may encounter a problem with certain combinations. It doesn’t say you will encounter a problem and it doesn’t say that any of the shipped templates have a problem. I would recommend you use them unless you actually encounter a problem.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Steve Rhoden]

Exactly…. There is nothing there that says there
is an issue with the Sony AVC encoder, only with certain
combinations above 4GB. Using the templates yield no issues,
thats what they are there for as the accepted standard formats.

Steve Rhoden
(Cow Leader)
Film Editor & Compositor.
Filmex Creative Media.
https://www.facebook.com/FilmexCreativeMedia
1-876-832-4956

[Stephen Mann]

I seem to recall that an earlier version of Vegas used an AVC encoder that was written for XP and had a 4Gb limit (FAT32). But, I’ve never seen any problems with either encoder in Version 11 or 12.

I don’t have the Studio versions of Vegas, so I can’t speak for the encoders used there.

Steve Mann
MannMade Digital Video
http://www.mmdv.com

[Rich Kutnick]

Regardless of know issues and specific combinations of factors, I guess that I just am one of the “lucky” ones, but exactly as with the Sony AVC render my Mainconcept render last evening/this morning completed without incident. However, when I ran DVD Architect 6 and tried to load the 17GB AVC file, DVD Architect just sat there with a spinning circle and did not respond. Neither would VLC Media Player play these respective AVC files either. So I have experienced the same scenario with large AVC files regardless of whether they were Sony or Mainconcept. However, I did find that on smaller renders (30 or so minutes or less length veg files) that if I rendered with Mainconcept MPEG-2 that these resulting files loaded fine in DVD Architect as well as VLC Media Player. This evening I will try the complete 2 hour veg file render to Mainconcept MPEG-2 this time, and report back my findings. If this does not work, and rendering sections does work, would I be best to load the segments individually into DVD Architect and author it to play as if I was just one big file? I believe that DVD Architect has the ability to play segments back-to-back seamlessly so it appears as one program, correct? So if I render pre-ceremony, ceremony and post-ceremony separately, why can’t I author it as a 2-hour wedding celebration and place chapters where I desire? I have the VASST DVD Architect training disk that came with Vegas Pro 8 (and John Rofrano’s long hair), but I am not sure if John touched on this particular procedure back then (great stuff, by the way, John!). Any advice on this plan, should the MPEG-2 render also not work properly, would be most welcome and helpful, so thanks in advance.

Rich Kutnick
VIDEO IMPRESSIONS

[John Rofrano]

[Rich Kutnick] “This evening I will try the complete 2 hour veg file render to Mainconcept MPEG-2 this time, and report back my findings. If this does not work, and rendering sections does work, would I be best to load the segments individually into DVD Architect and author it to play as if I was just one big file? I believe that DVD Architect has the ability to play segments back-to-back seamlessly so it appears as one program, correct?”

No this is not an acceptable solution because the DVD will not play the sections back smoothly; there will be a slight noticeable pause as the DVD player seeks the next file. You will also not be able to move chapters backwards across file boundaries. It’s definitely a sub-optimal solution.

You should be rendering your video as MainConcept MPEG-2 and your audio as Dolby Digital AC-3 as one long file. Give those files the same name just with different extensions and you should be all set.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Rich Kutnick]

John, I am about to commence per your instructions. Wish me luck!!

Rich Kutnick
VIDEO IMPRESSIONS

[John Rofrano]

[Rich Kutnick] “Wish me luck!!”

Good Luck! 😉

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Rich Kutnick]

SUCCESS AT LAST, and here is the explicit path that I took with the hope that it will help anyone else in my position:

1) Shut off my GTX 560 video card from SVG Pro 12 before rendering/encoding. This card works great for everything EXCEPT SVG Pro 12. I went back and forth using it during editing, for I am not sure whether it helped or hindered during that stage of production.

2) This was a 1 hour 57 minute production shot on HDV, so I worked and rendered/encoded in HDV 1080i (1440X1080). There was quite a bit of color correction and audio post-processing, as well as using Sony Levels on each discrete video track to Map 255 to 235, leave 16 at 16. I trust that this was the correct action to take as advised on this Forum.

3) In the later stages of editing, it took every bit of 2 minutes to load the veg file, so I had to be VERY patient and enjoy the spinning circle during the loading cycle. If I changed my PC’s focus to another program, when I went back to Vegas it took at least 30 seconds for Vegas to react to commands. This HD stuff really takes up a lot fo resources, and this is an understatement!!

4) My audio render/encoding was AC3, 192kbps, and I recall it took around a dozen minutes or so to render/encode, but this was not my main concern. It was the video, for which the Sony and Mainconcept AVC rendered/encoded files failed to load in any program I have on my PC (DVD Architect, Corel VideoStudio 5, VLC Media Player). My only hope was to use the Mainconcept MPEG-2 Blu-ray 1440×1080-60i, 25 Mbps video stream template, which I throttled back to 24Mbps. This template was not highly regarded by some on this Forum, as they favored the AVC templates. Before I began rendering/encoding the video portion I pulled my ethernet cable out of the router and shut off my antivirus software, as I was told these may interfere with the render/encode process. However, some 15 hours later I had a
usable m2v video file that loaded seamlessly into DVD Architect 6 as the ac3 file automatically followed. I prepared it as a single movie for my testing purposes and wrote an iso file, which took about an hour and a half to create. All of my chapter points from Vegas also transferred seamlessly to DVD Architect, by the way. I then burned a Blu-ray BD-RE successfully (45 minutes), and it played fine on my Vizio Blu-ray consumer player, save for only 2 places where the program froze for 1 second each time then picked up playing at the respective point.

5) For the next go round (after a bit more tweaking–some scenes need more attention, as they still are a bit blown out due to direct sunlight entering the room during the ceremony the morning of the wedding), I also plan to render/encode an m2t that contains both audio and video streams so that I can test it in Corel VideoStudio 5, which has some interesting canned motion DVD menus that I may want to use instead of going the DVD Architect route–we will see.

So there you have my adventures in HD in a nutshell, and at 15-20 hours to render this gigantic file EACH TIME and have it fail on two different AVC templates, it has taken well over a week all told for me finally to have a usable product for my efforts. I have absolutely no idea why the AVC renders/encodes failed, as AVC is supposed to be a more efficient codec, but the bottom line is what works, works!

I hope that my experiences will help anyone else faced with a large project. While AVC DID work for me on a 1.5 hour project with no Vegas processing AND on 30 minute-or-less segments of my current project that were heavily processed, this complete project would not give me a usable render/encode unless I used the Manconcept MPEG-2 template. At least this was my personal experience.

Finally, I want to thank everyone who pitched in with their advice and suggestions, which helped me significantly in my quest for success. It is through groups such as this that we all can benefit from to perfect our craft, perform it efficiently, and give our Clients what they are paying for!

OK, I have to get back to work now…

Rich Kutnick
VIDEO IMPRESSIONS