Software Frame Rate Coversion – Varicam offspeed to 25p

[Gary Adcock]

[Stephen de Vere] “I’ve heard that the results are not as good quality as those from the hardware converter.”

Not sure where you got that from.

The Apple version of the FRC in FCP 6 (the only software version that supports 25p conversions) does nothing more than the hardware version does, removing the additional frames in the native DVCPROHD codec, and passing that back to a tape- in my mind a generational loss of re-recording back to tape.

I tested it myself and saw no difference on my scopes.

if your worried about this get a kona card, it can to the conversion on capture, even as uncompressed.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

[Stephen De vere]

Thanks Gary.

“Not sure where you got that from.”

I heard it from a UK TV producer I’ve been shooting Varicam with – we were talking ways to reduce production costs of the Panasonic converter machine time (which are considerable on wildlife documentaries where shooting ratios are fairly high and offspeed shooting is frequent).

I had a look at the Kona cards website but couldn’t see anything about frame rate converting Varicam variable frame rate footage.

I’m just a cameraman, and a non-technical one at that, but what actually happens when the Kona deals with say a 5 second 60fps shot that will become a longer shot at normal (25fps) playback speed ? What happens with timecode ?

[Gary Adcock]

[Stephen de Vere] “I had a look at the Kona cards website but couldn’t see anything about frame rate converting Varicam variable frame rate footage”

Call it an undocumented feature, but I have been the Post instructor for the Varicamp training for a couple of years now and I show this function all the time.

There is a white paper in the works, but I had to wait for the new version of FCP to release.

“what actually happens when the Kona deals with say a 5 second 60fps shot that will become a longer shot at normal (25fps) playback speed “

then that 5seconds of 60fps when converted to 25p would now be 12 seconds long

“What happens with timecode ?”
Timecode and audio are stripped out as part of any hardware based time conversion.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

[Stephen De vere]

And it works for all 4-60fps frame rates shot in camera, working in a 25p timeline ?

[Gary Adcock]

[Stephen de Vere] “it works for all 4-60fps frame rates shot in camera, working in a 25p timeline ?”

yes and actually it works from 1-60 frames as shot by the camera,
speed ramps, but not with any intervalometer settings do to the manner the camera handles that.

Also do know there is a varicam forum here?

https://forums.creativecow.net/viewforum/120?

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

[Stephen De vere]

Thanks Gary.

Yes I know about the Varicam forum but I couldn’t find anything on this topic there and this seemed like the right place to post.

[Enzo Tedeschi]

Hey Stephen,

I know this is a little late, but this is working for me at the moment:

https://www.outpostpps.com/blog/?p=24

Enzo Tedeschi
____________________________
Editor
http://www.outpostpps.com
Sydney, Australia

Outpost / YouTube – http://www.youtube.com/outpostpps
Outpost / Podcast – http://www.outpostpps.com/podcast/
Outpost / Blog – http://www.outpostpps.com/blog
Outpost / MySpace – http://www.myspace.com/outpostpps

[Stephen De vere]

Never too late, thanks. That looks like a viable alternative, though I worry about the storage required (generally rather high shooting ratios in wildlife productions), but could always go the offline route.

Are you shooting with the camera system frequency at 60Hz ? It sounds from your article/blog that you might be shooting with camera system frequency at 59.94 to obtain “….59.94/60fps source files” over Firewire.

Did you really notice no difference in quality ? What do you monitor on within FCP ?

Stephen.

[Stephen De vere]

Never too late, thanks. That looks like a viable alternative, though I worry about the storage required (generally rather high shooting ratios in wildlife productions), but could always go the offline route.

Are you shooting with the camera system frequency at 60Hz ? Does that give “….59.94/60fps source files” over Firewire ?

Did you really notice no difference in quality ? What do you monitor on within FCP ?

Quite a few people in Europe now starting to use 24(23.94) (shoot and edit) instead of 25p for workflow, even when main delivery is for TV. That should simplify things further.

Stephen.

[Enzo Tedeschi]

Yeah, the space is an issue. I’m using around 500 gigs on this short for rushes that should only take up 200-odd.

If you have the extra space, you can create self-contained files of your 24fps files and get rid of the 60fps stuff…?

I didn’t shoot the material – you’d have to ask the DOP for a definite answer to that question. Supposedly for PAL it needs to be 60, and for NTSC 59.94. But I will say this – my understanding is that 59.94 and 60 are the same thing (someone’s going to lay into me for that one). If you do some googling, you’ll see there’s some conflicting arguments on that one. BUT… the 1200A deck says it doesn’t support 60 over firwire, only 59.94.

So I’m still a little hazy on that one. I thought I had 60, and it went through fine, so…. ?

Quality difference? You mean as opposed to through SDI? Well, going through SDI is actually a form of recompression, whereas firewire transfer (much like DV) is a lossless transfer.

Monitoring can be achieved via Digital Cinema Desktop or a Kona card.

24fps workflow is a good option, but you’re still gonna have to get to 25fps at some point (unless you’re happy to have it run slow)…

Enzo Tedeschi
____________________________
Editor
http://www.outpostpps.com
Sydney, Australia

Outpost / YouTube – http://www.youtube.com/outpostpps
Outpost / Podcast – http://www.outpostpps.com/podcast/
Outpost / Blog – http://www.outpostpps.com/blog
Outpost / MySpace – http://www.myspace.com/outpostpps