So who is the best candidate?

[Tom Daigon]

Avid has been on the edge of financial disaster for the last 7 years. Dont assume to much about them. Nothing is forever.

Tom Daigon
Avid DS / FCP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com

[Ivan Radovanovic]

Usually I don’t participate in discussions here but it is amazing how how simple questions about Premiere can go into long thread W/O answer (not only on this forum).
I’m not PP editor primarily.

First I’m not sure how you define After Effects, Cinema 4D as a mid-level stuff. After Effects is a industry standard for motion graphics. No, it is not compositing “one shoot based” tool, but again you can do much more serious compositing in AE than you can do motion graphics in Nuke / Fusion 🙂 Cinema 4D is currently the most used 3D application for motion graphics and together with Body Paint very much used for feature films.

Now back to the subject.
– Yes, you can edit DPX, XDCAM, DSLR (and many more formats, RED, etc.) without transcoding. Performance will depend from your system
– Yes you can export CMX3600 that will work with Resolve (also with Speedgrade and others). Friend of my have just finished grading of the feature film that way (shoot with RED)
– For VFX guys (Nuke / Fusion) you will probably always export DPX sequence, and yes PP can do that.

[Daniel Frome]

I can only guess, but I would say “yes” because, so long as it is a quicktime codec, the Avid AMA plugin should be able to read it.

[Daniel Frome]

It’s pretty hillarious when you look at AVID’s stock:
https://www.google.ca/finance?client=ob&q=NASDAQ:AVID

It was soaring on the release of Media Composer 5, and then tanked when Apple demo’d FCPX. Now it is climbing sharply again since the FCPX release.

[Gary Huff]

I just checked out my Premiere CS5.5 export options and AAF is definitely one of them.

Wait…no “Import iMovie Project”…guess you can’t have everything.

[Adam Claude jones]

Thanks for all the replies. It seems a lot of people are sold on premiere. I did some search and it seems avid can do all and more. So what is the premiere selling point? Is it the lower price? Or just the adobe suite integration? The later does not matter at all for me as I do not use any other adobe product.
One of the things I find curious about premiere is that I can never really find anybody using it outside of weddings, corporate and short form stuff. Definitely never heard of a main stream movie being cut on premiere for example. I wonder why the higher end seems to shy away from premiere? What’s the catch if it is so good and powerful?

The problem of not having too many people using the program you are using for the same thing you are using it for is when questions arise it’s hard to find people who can answer your questions.

I’m sure if I start using premiere and start cutting weddings in lower formats or corporate interviews from AVCD, XDCAM and DSLRs and I get a workflow question I will have a million help replies. I’ sure if I come with a question of how to do a title sequence in AE and import into premiere I will be a quick reply.
But will I be able to get help when I come with higher end questions? +

How many premiere users here use it for long form work?

How many premiere users here cut DPX sequences? What are the premiere needs for a DPX post workflow? Any caveats?

How many export and send DPX sequences from premiere to a compositing department to be composited in Nuke or Fusion and then get it back again in DPX or EXR and you have to do a re-conform on your time line?

How many people here send their projects to a Protools facility for audio mixing?

How many must send their entire long form project to Da Vinci for grading?

How many must generate multiple versions of their projects for DVD, Blu-ray, Digital Cinema Projection, Web etc?

What workflow did you use to generate a master for 35mm film transfer last time you did it?

How many must prepare different versions of their project for different languages?

How many must generate different versions for approval? What’s the workflow you use for that?

How many must work and collaborate with more people rather than being a one man show?

Those are the things that concern me in going the premiere way. Good thing about avid is that they have been doing this stuff for decades and it has always worked for them. Before FCP they were pretty much the only game in town. We did have other applications but avid was the largest and had the huge majority of the market. Now that FCP is falling, will avid be supreme again? Doesn’t matter. But the piece of mind in knowing they have been doing all of the above for years surely makes me more comfortable with them than with adobe.

This is no adobe bashing. I’m asking serious questions with serious interest.

Oh apple, why did you have to forsake us? LOL.

[Adam Claude jones]

Sorry Ivan. I didn’t mean anything bad by it. Not trying to put it down. It’s just that you don’t really hear of C4D or AE being used for example in Hollywood features apart from the exotic situation where the guy is a AE fan and use it for a shot, not because it was the best tool for the job since Nuke and Fusion run miles around AE for film compositing, but because he could. Same thing with C4D.
In the higher end compositing is normally done on Nuke, Fusion or Autodesk with Shake still being quite used as well.
3D is normally Maya and Lightwave with Max being bigger in the game industry than in the film industry.

AE will be used for motion graphics and so will C4D and only be used for the rest by the mid level and down. Not saying a Hollywood feature has not used AE for some shot like I said or even C4D. But they are usually not the tools of choice in that level. Many times not even for motion graphics.

Of course Nuke and Fusion suck at motion graphics. They are not made for that. They are specialist tools and do not try to gather to the one man band type of market that AE does. But I have to disagree with you when you say you can do much more serious compositing in AE than you can do motion graphics in Nuke / Fusion. I can’t see myself doing serious compositing at all in AE unless I absolutely had to.
For me serious compositing would mean a something like this: https://www.vfxtalk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4950&d=1195469194 ,which I would probably shoot myself in the head if I had to do in AE.

Now for your occasional green screen interview and 2.5D presentations, sure.

[Tom Daigon]

You are asking good detailed technical questions to a primarily FCP 7 audience considering options like you are. While some may have experience with these products, I suggest you pose these questions in Avid and Premiere forums where the level of familiarity with products is probably much higher.

Todd Kopriva at the Adobe forum is very knowledgeable.
https://forums.adobe.com/community/premiere/premierepro_current

As to Avid, maybe others can suggest an equally good resource.

Tom Daigon
Avid DS / FCP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com

[Tim Wilson]

[Tom Daigon] “Todd Kopriva at the Adobe forum is very knowledgeable.”

Todd is one of the most frequent posters at Creative COW. Don’t hesitate to reach him through the Premiere Pro and After Effects forums.

Our Avid forum is quite active too, and many of the guys are familiar with FCP, for obvious reasons.

That said, a lot of the guys who are active in the Avid forum are active in the FCP forums as well, for equally obvious reasons. In fact, some of the most active posters in one forum are also the most active posters in the other….again, for obvious reasons.

It’s slightly less true with the Premiere Pro forum, but I predict that this might change right quick.

My point being is that this is just as good a place as any to bring this up, because there are lots of multi-lingual guys here. But certainly as you drill down, a visit to those other forums might be in order.

In any case, there’s nowhere better to get the answers to these question than the COW. This is a great thread. Carry on, gentlemen…especially if you’re gentle. 🙂

Best,
Tim
Creative COW

[David Cherniack]

[Adam Claude Jones] “I’m sure if I start using premiere and start cutting weddings in lower formats or corporate interviews from AVCD, XDCAM and DSLRs and I get a workflow question I will have a million help replies. I’ sure if I come with a question of how to do a title sequence in AE and import into premiere I will be a quick reply.
But will I be able to get help when I come with higher end questions? +

How many premiere users here use it for long form work?

How many premiere users here cut DPX sequences? What are the premiere needs for a DPX post workflow? Any caveats?”

Hi Adam,

You’re really operating from old information. With the 64 bit CS5+, the Mercury Playback Engine, and RT CUDA effects Premiere began have sheer playback power and long form capability. I use it for cutting complex hour documentaries 500+ events on 10 tracks of video and 10 tracks of audio with no slowdown.

The only reasons it’s failed to move into a lot of high end post facilities are inertia, ignorance of it’s new capabilities, and a shortage of a complete third party ecosystem, that have had the time to develop around Avid and the ‘late’ FCP, that make it unsuitable for some uses. The last has been slow to change, however, but will probably accelerate greatly as people start moving from kicking its tires to taking it out for a test drive.

David
AllinOneFilms.com