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So has the 10.3 Update calmed your fears on the Future of FCPX?
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[Jeremy Garchow] “So grab a Surface Pro and let Adobe/Avid rule? If you’re so upset and discouraged, why stick around?”
I’m not upset. Just not irrationally exuberant like many others ?
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
I do think that the whole Roles feature is actually under-appreciated in your comments, Oliver.
In the sense that I think it must have been taking not only a lot of technical engineering (look at Apple’s white paper for Roles (https://images.apple.com/final-cut-pro/docs/Audio_Roles.pdf) but also a lot of user-interface thinking. Like how you now get an always on Audio Configuration on the inspector that you can colapse out for subroles, see submixes, and stuff.
I think it’s ‘easy’ to use it now that it’s out, but it presented a lot of big challenges for the developers to program. Again, not only technically, but also user-interface wise, and to keep it logical. Complex and still simple, because it’s a feature you can ignore, but that you can also go very deep with.To use a hyperbole (to add some oil to the fire – because of course my opinion is a bit more nuanced than that) but I think Apple over the course of 2011, with the introduction of 10.0.1 which was if I’m not mistaken, the first release to have Roles, to now 10.3, in 5 years solved most ‘problems’ that tracks had, and also most problems that their whole new paradigm (magnetic timeline) had.
Considering how long people have been editing with tracks, and gotten used to working around clip collissions, patching tracks before putting shots in, etc., I think it’s a huge achievement. And not a small update at all.
It’s a huge step forward for their NLE, and I think NLE-design in general. I just think we don’t see it yet, because FCPX has (in my feeling) only getting some traction the past 2 years in the industry, and 10.3 is only a couple of weeks old. But I think all of this stuff means a lot for the whole editing industry going forward. Maybe I am too optimistic, maybe I’m not.
I have a feeling that Apple put some ground work here, that adding a mixer is a lot more easy next step than the step they just took and a lot less of a challenge than the one they just overcame.
And if people will see how this new paradigm can let you organise stuff very clearly visually, and have it all seperate in your exports without it blocking you in the creative process, I think a lot of editors will think of tracks as archaic (even non-FCPX users).https://mathieughekiere.wordpress.com
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[Mathieu Ghekiere] “I do think that the whole Roles feature is actually under-appreciated in your comments, Oliver.”
Well, maybe. It’s not a fundamental change, but rather a reworking of what already existed in roles. Since you could already export with roles summed into audio stems shows that this architecture was there, pre-10.3. The need to use compound clips for submixes points to a less-than-adequate approach to solving the problem. The whole magnetic timeline approach can be cool, but this issue points to some definite limitations.
[Mathieu Ghekiere] “But I think all of this stuff means a lot for the whole editing industry going forward. Maybe I am too optimistic, maybe I’m not.”
I think you are being too optimistic about the industry at large. Let’s see them try to implement this in Logic Pro X and then see how the audio community reacts.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “Well, maybe. It’s not a fundamental change, but rather a reworking of what already existed in roles. Since you could already export with roles summed into audio stems shows that this architecture was there, pre-10.3.”
I agree with that point. I think the whole concept of Roles is the whole revolutionary thing. (I said the same when I did a demo of FCPX for professionals in Belgium that didn’t know the program). But with 10.3 it matured a lot and I think that process of the more mature version of Roles, unlocks the potential it always had conceptually, and will give the whole paradigm of FCPX the potential of becoming dominant in the industry.
https://mathieughekiere.wordpress.com
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[Mathieu Ghekiere] “[Oliver Peters] “Well, maybe. It’s not a fundamental change, but rather a reworking of what already existed in roles. Since you could already export with roles summed into audio stems shows that this architecture was there, pre-10.3.”
I agree with that point. “
I think It’s a huge change.
Folks who liked tracks were not really arguing about roles that much. They wanted to be able to look at their timeline and see what was what at a glance when it came to their audio.
Some said color coded roles would help. (they did that and then some)
They addressed those exact concerns and pretty much took that argument off the table. Like they did with multicam.
Huge change.
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[Tony West] “Some said color coded roles would help. (they did that and then some)
They addressed those exact concerns and pretty much took that argument off the table. Like they did with multicam.
Huge change.”
Very pleased with this change as well. I’d love to hear some more feedback from the Creative Summit, there must have been a lot of discussion going on and there.
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[Tony West] “Folks who liked tracks were not really arguing about roles that much. They wanted to be able to look at their timeline and see what was what at a glance when it came to their audio.
Some said color coded roles would help. (they did that and then some)”
I was certainly in the camp asking for better visual organization in X so seeing those additions in 10.3 is nice. In the grand scheme of things though I still think that, among the three A’s, X is most likely to get dropped out of the blue, Avid is the most likely to go bankrupt/get bought out, and PPro is the most likely to keep kickin’ around.
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I guess from my POV, the point of this thread is whether the development gives you faith in the future of X. In that sense Roles is a different approach, but the changes in this version are evolutionary, which is why I said it was in large part a cosmetic release.
In the context of this question, my fear is that Apple will get to a 10 year mark with X and it either stays there in that state (whatever that will be) or it will be killed off. That’s been Apple’s track record with nearly everything. So with that in mind, I don’t see how this release does anything to change that perception (at least for me).
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “I’m not upset. Just not irrationally exuberant like many others ?”
What part of this is “irrational” exactly? We were waiting for a BIG update. We got a BIG update.
It went WAY beyond the “just add minor features to what we’ve already got.”
It went into whole new areas nobody had ever enjoyed built directly into an NLE before. Roles and Lanes and the way metadata inside metadata needs to patch itself (roles and subroles mixing themselves into output streams) took a LOT of work to put into a system that I bet will take me MONTHS to fully appreciate.
And that’s only going to come after I understand how the interface changes will affect my daily workflow.
To me, Roles is just developing like Range Based Keywords. It looked simple and straightforward at first, but the more I learn about it – the more it appears to let me accomplish things in ways I simply couldn’t before.
That’s NOT small.
And as to waiting for hardware – that’s the whole POINT of one company having the ability to create new software and hardware in concert?
Break prior limitations. Go new places. Try new things.
If an editor doesn’t like that and just want’s to keep things as close to the prior experience he or she had – that’s Great. Just enjoy it.
And sorry, but this looks like ACTUAL innovation to me. Defined by me as real capabilities coming to the laptop editing experience right now that were never possible before. Tons of people are lauding Adobe for its social media panel initiative. Excellent. Go new places. Innovate.
But don’t bash Apple for doing the same thing aimed at a professional editors experience while sitting at the keyboard getting their daily work done either.
The old meme was that Apple didn’t care about “Pro Editors.”
Explain to me even ONE of the 10.3 initiatives that actually applies to anyone else?
If that isn’t cause to be a bit exuberant – I don’t know what is.
Just my 2 cents.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Bill Davis] “What part of this is “irrational” exactly? We were waiting for a BIG update. We got a BIG update.”
a) There’s very little about any software update that warrants exuberance. It’s only software. It doesn’t define what I do or don’t do.
b) I don’t see it as a big update. Different – yes. A number of new features – yes. Big – not so much in my mind. 10.09 to 10.1 was a big update. I actually think it’s good that it wasn’t this big, because that was extremely disruptive.
[Bill Davis] “Roles and Lanes and the way metadata inside metadata needs to patch itself (roles and subroles mixing themselves into output streams) took a LOT of work to put into a system that I bet will take me MONTHS to fully appreciate.”
As I stated before, most of this architecture was there before.
[Bill Davis] “Defined by me as real capabilities coming to the laptop editing experience right now that were never possible before.”
What do you mean “to the laptop editing experience”? I don’t understand that statement.
[Bill Davis] “And as to waiting for hardware – that’s the whole POINT of one company having the ability to create new software and hardware in concert?”
I’m not sure that’s even true. For the Touch Bar, I suppose is what you mean. As far as actual editing, I don’t see this version as anymore optimized for the new machines as for the previous versions.
[Bill Davis] “The old meme was that Apple didn’t care about “Pro Editors.”
Explain to me even ONE of the 10.3 initiatives that actually applies to anyone else?”I don’t believe I said that. What I said was that I question the future of X past the 10th year of its existence. That was the point of the original question and I see nothing in this release to change that.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com
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