So anyway, 4K

[Andre Van berlo]

Have you seen any original files? Most stuff is on youtube and is heavily compressed. It is also recorded in camera at 4:2:0 8 bit. I can imagine the 10 bit 4:2:2 4k footage from HDMI will be better but you’ll need external recorder.

There’s not a lot of footage out there so it is kind of early to tell what it can or can’t do and how the footage will handle in post production.

I must say I agree that I also love the images I see from the bmpcc. I’ve been thinking of trading in my GH3’s and get the bmpcc’s instead but I haven’t quite been bold enough to do so.

[Jim Giberti]

Of course youtube and all online video is heavily compressed, but while compression can smooth some faults, create moire where there may not be on the original file, and reduce actual resolution; it’s still easy to judge relative depth of color, dynamic range, skin tones/handling, etc.
I also just looked at a 2 GB GH4 from Vimeo.
It only confirmed what I see in the other stuff I’ve looked at – great, detailed image but it just has a look that never worked for me as anything like an A camera.

While the camera itself is really fun to use, and I’m sure the GH4 will be even more so, it just doesn’t have the kind of “negative” I’ve grown to love with BM cameras. There’s also something different in the way they implement 24p that just works for me, BM vs GH.

I’m sure I’ll get a GH4. I’ve got a lot of MFT glass I use with BM and for the $ it’s a no brainer.
But for narrative and commercial work…people, the BM cameras can capture a native 800 ASA image that’s just silly good for the money…10 bit 4:2:2 ProRes…to an SD card

[Michael Gissing]

The BMPCC also now does raw with a firmware upgrade. A bit silly on the internal cards though.

[Mike Fernanandes]

Sorry I’m late to the party.

I just finished a estimated $1 Million upgrade to my facility for 4K production using FCPX and the Blackmagic 4K Cameras. We dropped in about 1PB of SAN storage as well as a MAM from Levels Beyond ( REACH ). Like others have said in FCPX 4K work is really easy. And if you enable proxies your just working with HD footage which we all have done for years. Or delivery format is Broadcast but we are mastering everything in 4K for future distribution. While it’s a bit overkill what we did and if you’re interested in it Part 1 of a 3 Part series is up here ( https://www.loudyeti.com/archives/567 ) The reality if you want to be in 4k all you need is a macbook pro with a Pegasus Raid and A BM4KPC, decent lens and some SSD’s

So $2000 for the computer $1500 for the storage – $3000 for the camera – $900 for SSD’s – $1300 for a set of cinema lenses = $8700 total

This is all we used to test out the workflows and make our decisions to move towards it.

And if your looking to trick out your cameras we use ViewFactor.net for cages and support gear. AMAZING quality, priced great and great people to work with.

Entry to 4K is insanely inexpensive cheeper than most current HD rigs. And if you’re using FCPX its really easy too. If you’re on the fence go 4K and that money you spend today will last you years to come.

-The Yeti

loudyeti.com

[Jim Giberti]

I put a couple of VF Contineo cages on the BMPCCs…really great gear. Also using the Kinotehnik VF which is great with the BM.

[Oliver Peters]

FWIW – ARRI has officially acknowledged developing a 4K Alexa. Although they seem reluctant about it.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Jim Giberti]

I think the pressure to provide a 4k camera is unavoidable for any camera maker, especially when you’ve got people like Sony with a $2k consumer 4k that’s got pretty amazing resolution.

I try and just keep it in perspective to my creative and deliverables. I really never thought of the web as viable a media outlet (for our work) even a few years ago, but I’m booked producing work directly to web as much as anything else. Most of my work of the last few years is for web and TV (cable and satellite.) In neither instance do I see bandwidth and compression mandating 4k delivery.

But hey, things change and I could be very wrong in a year or two. Good news is 4k camera s are already ridiculously affordable.

Right now, while I’m editing on my Retina at night and the TV is on I regularly turn my monitor to my wife and say “does anything you’re seeing in that HD broadcast looks as detailed as what I shot today?” Not even close. Last night I was watching the Godfather and commenting on the same thing after working on a two camera BM edit all day. I was stunned at the lack of detail in Directv “HD”. At the end of the credits they actually had a card that read “digitally transferred and restored in 4k…” It certainly didn’t show in broadcast.

It isn’t just the old “the story rules” argument. I think, for viewers, the story rules and is better told with cameras that can provide a powerful, emotional image, and resolution is just one part of that. And unless you’re comparing 4k and 1080 side by side, I don’t think it’s nearly the most important factor.

[Jeremy Garchow]

We have been shooting with Sony F55 (and F5 as second camera) and recording more and more in 4k as opposed to shooting in 1080.

Our deliveries are mostly 1080, so we use QHD as a tool in reframing and post. It has worked really well for us.

While onboard 4k was a consideration in the F55, it was more for the higher frame rates, larger gamut, nicer sensor, and global shutter.

We have been shooting with SGamut3/SLog3 mostly in MXF wrapped XAVC, but looking forward to the ProRes upgrade option being offered by Sony in the near future. I hope to find out more about that with NAB approaching as I don’t know if this option is going to allow a 4k record on SxS or not.

Shooting RAW on the F55 requires a snap on accessory and different media cards. I love working with Raw media for grading, but Sony Raw MXF hasn’t exactly taken off in post quite yet. There is enough software support to make it worth it, it’s just not as easy as using compressed media and a flat gamma curve for our purposes. I am hoping that NAB brings a Sony Raw workflow to more video editing applications.

The Sony SR codec workflow is also not as convenient as the SStP support requires a batch conversion to something else. You cannot shoot 4k in SStP either, so, there’s that.

I am one of the stupid that has decided Apple knows better than I do, and have begun a migration to Thunderbolt 2. It has cost real money, but our post gear hasn’t been updated in quite some time, so we are fortunate (or unfortunate, depending on your world view) to be investing in a technology that has current development support. Newer ≠ better, so I expect a few hurdles. At the very least, we will maintain our fighting weight from all the running and jumping.

Our storage should be more than adequate for 4k, as it’s already working now.

Also happening now, and in to the foreseeable future, there’s no reason for us to monitor in 4k. Once broadcast calls for 4k, we will then consider 4k broadcast monitors. But COMPUTER monitors, yeah, I could always use some more pixels there.

I would prefer more latitude over more pixels, more lens choice over more raster, p over i, and blue over red.

[Chris Harlan]

[Jim Giberti] “And unless you’re comparing 4k and 1080 side by side, I don’t think it’s nearly the most important factor.
“

Other than for future-proofing your content, which does count for something.

[Steve Connor]

[Chris Harlan] “Other than for future-proofing your content, which does count for something.”

We started shooting in HD much earlier than we started to get asked for HD masters and it proved to be very useful for us. We are now doing exactly the same thing with 4K wherever possible.

Steve Connor

Class Bully