So anyway, 4K

[Oliver Peters]

So far, for me, I have only dealt with 4K+ as an acquisition format. None of my clients have yet expressed a need for a 4K master. Cameras have included 35mm film, RED One, RED Epic, Canon C500, GoPro and time-lapse sequences from full-frame DSLRs.

The general desire by the client is to use the camera for its features, the “look” or the ability to punch-in for reframing on the oversized frame, not necessarily to end up in 4K. These are for commercials, corporate videos and indie feature films. The target distribution is TV, web, DVD and theatrical. So far all delivery has been 1080p, 1080i, 720p or SD.

My usual approach to post is to transcode. Either once to a master format, or twice – a proxy for edit and then later to a master format for final. Editing software involved, includes FCP 7, FCP X and Media Composer to date. Also After Effects, Redcine-X Pro and Resolve.

I will be at NAB and will be looking at 4K options. Since I generally freelance, my inquiries are mostly so that I can advise my clients, rather than a personal purchase.

– Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Eric Santiago]

We (at a corporate level) got into 4K back in 2009 with our RED MX.
I for one love it since it really helped with my workflow (Maya and After Effects).
We were stuck with Avid MC and had to learn and re-learn the AMA battles.
In the end we got good at it but with recent FCPX/Premiere Pro workflow as well as Resolve, I myself drifted from Avid.
Perfect timing since I went and dipped into the RED Cool-Aid back in Oct 2012 with the BT-Scarlet 🙂
Most of our projects are Corporate and Digital Signage.
My personal is fun and more fun with eventual real work like shorts and music vids.
I guess I can honestly say that we/I were in full 4K mode around when FCPX finally started to work for us/me.
We will still shoot high and deliver low (DVD being the lowest) but our corporate level deliverables are HD and up (future Christie Microtiles installations) even the web is HD.
There is no looking back now, even though we are still an Avid facility first everything else piece meal.
We are not holding our breath on Avid but we are at least ready for anything 4K and up.

[Rich Rubasch]

I’m curious what deliverable format will become a standard. HDCAM has been an HD deliverable for network shows for a long time and Extreme Reach does not do full length programming. The file format deliverables are all over the map.

We need an organization (SMTPE?) to come up with standards for file deliveries…..how much slate, bars, black etc. Everyone wants something different. It’s going to get worse with 4k. Is there even a 4k tape delverable?

The wild west gets wilder!

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
https://www.tiltmedia.com

[Franz Bieberkopf]

I finished a long edit this past summer with 4k & 5k RED as the main format (there were many). Everything was transcoded to HD ProRes (via Red Rocket) for the edit (FCP7) and we delivered a Resolve project to the lab with original media for finish. Distribution was theatrical, DCP 2k.
(The people I worked with bought a 2011 MacPro and Red Rocket and that was the entire “upgrade”.)

I also recently did a one minute spot for broadcast with 5k RED material. I worked in PPro with camera orig (monitoring HD) and delivered same to lab for finish. Distribution was HD.
(There were no “upgrade” costs as it worked on everything I had.)

Franz.

[Gary Huff]

[Franz Bieberkopf] “(The people I worked with bought a 2011 MacPro and Red Rocket and that was the entire “upgrade”.)”

Frankly, a 2011 Mac Pro with dual 7870 Radeons running Mountain Lion/Mavericks would be the ideal upgrade for this kind of workflow, considering you’ll be able to utilize the entire power of the Rocket/Rocket-X card.

You wouldn’t get as much GPU RAM, but outside of that, I would think it would be very comparable if not a bit faster for straight transcoding vs. neuMac Pro.

[Lance Bachelder]

I’ve been cutting off and on for quite a while now on a Doc that is mostly 4K Red with a smattering of 5K and a lot of DSLR 1080 and uprezzed news and archive footage. We’ve been transcoding all the 4K to 2K ProRes 444 1:85 masters and cutting those. All 1080 footage is being scaled to match 2K timeline – not ideal but it’s working. I use 5DtoRGB to batch all DSLR and XDCAM footage to ProRes 444 and HQ depending of the situation – it’s a great tool for DSLR shooters.

I plan on shooting my next feature in 4K – possibly even the new GH4 but will have a better idea after NAB next week. I do believe 4K will be the theme at NAB this year and thankfully NOT 3D! Can’t wait!

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1

[Franz Bieberkopf]

[Gary Huff] “Frankly, a 2011 Mac Pro with dual 7870 Radeons running Mountain Lion/Mavericks would be the ideal upgrade for this kind of workflow …”

Gary,

Thanks for the suggestion. I’m wondering why you would recommend more graphics power.

I typically recommend “no upgrade” as the ideal.

Everything else has to justify itself in light of the workflow.

Considering that almost everything I’ve worked on the past decade has had it’s own unique workflow, any upgrades are an open question right now (and it wasn’t my system), but that set-up (above) worked just great for that workflow, and would do so again. I certainly wasn’t ever waiting for graphics power. (Also note that I can’t remember what MacPro it was exactly but it was purchased in spring 2012 if I recall correctly, and I think we used all the PCI slots; maybe one left empty).

Franz.

[Gary Huff]

[Franz Bieberkopf] “Thanks for the suggestion. I’m wondering why you would recommend more graphics power.”

Because GPUs are being used in conjunction with CPUs now for processing video content. With a Red Rocket, it won’t be as needed at the moment (though I’m hoping for a RedCine-X workflow that can use both in tandem).

[Gary Huff]

[Lance Bachelder] “I plan on shooting my next feature in 4K – possibly even the new GH4 but will have a better idea after NAB next week.”

Ideally it would be after Atomos comes out with their 4K HDMI recording unit that is heavily rumored to be announced (unless you plan on using the YAGH, but that will require 4 SDI connections to get 4K, which seems a bit much compared to a single HDMI cable).

Internally, 4K on the GH4 is basically just AVCHD.

[Herb Sevush]

Planning on switching our 5 camera PBS cooking show to SONY F55s this spring. Will record some single camera inserts in 4k internally, and use directly in PPro for ability to reframe. All the multi-camera stuff will be recorded externally as 1080 ProRes using our trusty KiPros. Distribution is still 1080 ProRes.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf