Should i go from 24P to 30P for World wide delivery on SD DVD

[Rafael Amador]

[Max Huggett] “Also, I don’t know whether to render out the 50i with FCP’s Deinterlace filter turned on, giving me a 25P file, then conform with cinema tools to 24”
You conform to 23’98 in CinemaTools and make the MPEG-2. The pulldown is added by the DVD player.

If you de-interlace in FC don’t use the default Deinterlace filter. Is crap.
If you have to send your clip to any other application (Jess Deinterlacer) try to export Uncomress, or at least Proress. Your footage is HDV.
Cheers,
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com

[Max Huggett]

So your advice Rafael is to stay in 23.98 for DVD production?

I actually captured as ProRes following Chris Poissons tutorial.

I have just noticed that my sequence Video setting is set to HDV50i and the codec is set to same as same as sequence codec. Yet when i render out, i choose Quicktime and select the default Current settings and they output files are in ProRes.

Should i change any of my sequence settings to reflect ProRes?

I would prefer to deinterlace in FCP as there are fewer steps involved by rendering out 1 file only. The conform just changes the header in the QT….. rather than render out of FCP, then go into Jess and render again – a deinterlaced file.

Natress may be my option then, but from what i have read, it requires an edited movie to be placed in the delivery format seqeunce setting. Does that mean i still have to render my PAL file …only to bring it back in to be deinterlaced and conformed to 23.98? or can i nest my PAL comp into a 23.98 NTSC Sequence.

Thanks
M

[Rafael Amador]

Hi Max,
The standard is 29’98 or 23’98.
The 23’98 signal is converted to 29,98 (NTSC) on play so the movie can be watch in any NTSC TV.
23’98 is not real NTSC.

About your sequence you don’t need but to change the codec, and set “Render in High Precission” if you want (recommendable if you are rendering to a 10b codec).
If you have the Nattress Deinterlacer, just use them. They are the only one that works in 10b. No need to go to Jess Deinterlacer.

[Max Huggett] “Natress may be my option then, but from what i have read, it requires an edited movie to be placed in the delivery format seqeunce setting. Does that mean i still have to render my PAL file …only to bring it back in to be deinterlaced and conformed to 23.98? or can i nest my PAL comp into a 23.98 NTSC Sequence. “
Don’t mess your self.
– Edit your i50 sequence.
– Drop the Nattress filter in all the footage.
– Change codec to Proress
– Change the Field Order to NONE.
Export.
Now you have a p50 movie.
– Conform to 23’98.
– Compress 23’98 MPEG-2.
Another thing you have to do is the downscaling. You do it in FC when exporting the clip or in Compressor when making the MPEG-2.
Cheers,
Rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com

[Bouke Vahl]

Not entirely.
NTSC is 29.97, and ’24’ is 23.976
(actually NTSC = 30000 / 1001)

23.976 is fully within specs of a DVD player.
Pulldown will be added by the player.
So there is absolutely no need to go to 29.97 if your setup is good.

Just run a few tests with high motion, make a DVD, ingest it and see if you have proper pulldown added.

Bouke

https://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pro’s

[Rafael Amador]

Hi Bouke,
Thanks for chime in.
Im PAL lander and those time-base still make me doubt many times.
Why CinemaTools offers two options: 23,98 and 24?
Thanks,
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com

[Bouke Vahl]

Rafael,
I’m from Pal land too (I’m Dutch).
But i recently did a huge job (5 dvd 9’s, containing over 16 hour of footage) that had to go worldwide.
Material was Pal film (speeded up to 25)

I ended up using AE.
Set ‘interpret footage’ to 23.976, drop the footage in an 23.976 comp sized 720 x 480, and scale to fit the frame.
Render out to a 4:2:2 codec, then convert to MpegII using Cinemacraft.

For this it is important NEVER EVER to use the term 23.98 again, as that WILL get you into trouble! It’s 23.976!

For me it was very handy to work this way, progressive material is a bit easier to compress, and it’s less data (24 vs 30 frames per second). As i had to crank an insane amount of footage on the disks, all that can help is welcome.
And of course, software playback can do true progressive.

(The box set won an award for ‘best box’at the Il Cinema Ritrovato filmfestival in Bologna, sounds close to you 🙂

Bouke

https://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pro’s

[Rafael Amador]

Hi Bouke,
I know that you are in PAL land, but I also know that you are strong in things related with TC and so.
Sorry if I insist.
In the post before you wrote “NTSC is 29.97, and ’24’ is 23.976 “.
Here you write: “For this it is important NEVER EVER to use the term 23.98 again, as that WILL get you into trouble! It’s 23.976!”.
But in Cinema tools there are two options: 24 and 23’98.
I guess 23’98 is really 23’976.
So here 24, is really 24 (cinema)?
Cheers,
rafael
PS: I’m happy not being NTSC “dependent”. Even the people that currently work with those formats get mixed very easily.

http://www.nagavideo.com

[Bouke Vahl]

Rafael,
23.98 is an Apple term. It is a ‘term’, and it’s not accurate enough.
It will get people into problems when they have to do things like sound stretching, as they use the wrong math for new durations.
Or, as in this example, setting up an AE comp as 23.98 will result in wrong MpegII files, source for a lot of frustration. (Got the T-shirt, that’s why i dove into it…)

So, 24 is ‘true’ 24, intended for Cinema.
23.976 is what is used when you switch to ‘23.98’ (The number can be even more accurate, it’s 30000 / 1001 / 30 * 24, makes 23,976023976023976023976023976024

Now this looks insignificant, but when you do math on large numbers it can make a difference. (Like BWF timecode that is written in samples. Now after 14 hours with 14 * 60 * 60 * 48000 samples passed, the difference is big enough to get a two frame offset)
(another T shirt for me…)

And yes, i am a TC nerd…
Don’t be too afraid of NTSC. It aint that hard if you understand the math a little.
And if you work for an international production, it makes sense to shoot 24P (Thus, in most cases 23.976 P 🙂

hth,

Bouke

https://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pro’s

[Rafael Amador]

Hi Bouke,
Thanks for clearing me those terms.
Time for FCS to set them properly.
Best,
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com