setting layer markers IN BETWEEN frames

[Steve Roberts]

If you expect to render in fields, then a hit could show between frames. Otherwise, it would not, since digital video only displays discrete frames. But you knew that … 🙂

However, if you do expect to render fields, and you want to place markers between frames, and you’re in NTSC-land, try making a 59.94 fps comp, tap your beats, set your keys, then render to 29.97 fps with fields.

Haven’t tried it myself, though …

It could be that the synced animations that you’ve seen have the beats at some multiple of 30 beats per second, or have been time-stretched to make that happen.

my 2 cents,
Steve

[Jeff Mullen]

I would reccommend Trapcode’s plug-in Sound Keys–then you can generate keyframes from analyzing the audio track–very accurate to matching stuff to audio.

Cheers!

-Jeff Mullen
molek

[Grains]

Thanks Jeff…
I’ll certainly check that out… Audio – Visual Sync is central to what I’m trying to work at, so that sounds like it would be a good investment..

Super fast response by the way, thanks for that.

God bless

[Grains]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for that…

I have to admit, I don’t know what you mean by “if I wanted to render in fields…”
Can I output another type of video than in fps? If so, can I also work in this format, then perhaps record it with say, DV from another output?

I don’t know if 99.x fps will be a high enough res, but I will certainly try it out and let you know.. I’m also going to look at that plug in Jeff recommended…

Thanks for the super fast response…

God bless

[Steve Roberts]

Well … here’s a very simplified explanation

1. NTSC is the standard in North America and Japan.
2. It always displays (plays back) at 29.97 frames per second on TV. This is for DV, DVD, VHS, Betacam, DigiBeta, 3/4 and Betamax.
3. It always displays in fields. To picture fields, imagine a frame of video sliced into 480 thin horizontal slices. First, the odd slices (1,3,5, etc.) are shown. Then the even slices are shown 1/60 of a second later. The odd and even slices alternate. Each group of slices is called a field. Most DV cameras record video this way: “interlaced” is another term. (the anal-retentive may refer to my disclaimer at the start)
4. If you animate things and render to fields, your motion is such that each set of slices (field) is different. It’s like having 60 half-frames per second, to give an illusion of smoother motion. Some say it looks video-like.
5. If you render without fields, you render 29.97 frames per second, and each frame is unsliced … like a film frame. This is called “progressive scan”. Some say it looks more like film than video.
6. A TV is showing fields when playing back progressive footage, but it’s just that each field is identical.
7. 99 fps would only be possible when playing back on a computer only. No TVs can be involved. DV would not be involved — it only works at 29.97. Besides, depending on the size of your frame, it’s likely that no computer could play back 99 fps.
8. 29.97 is 30 to everyone else except us video techs, who must know the difference. You might want to Google for some video basics, or Google “Videosyncrasies”.
9. If you’re in Europe, you use PAL, not NTSC. It is 25 fps or 50 fields per second.

Hope that helps,
Steve

[Jonathan Miller]

Grains, I looked at your profile and it says that you are an electronic musician. It also says that you’re in Ireland. So, that would mean that you’re running PAL at 25 fps or 50 fields per second.

I totaly understand your desire to hit at subframe accuracy. However, maybe you really don’t need to.

On some projects, it’s very easy to get lost in the details. There have been sooo many projects where I’ve lost DAYS trying to get something “just so” only to discover that no one noticed it anyway. I’m not telling you to do a poor job, but maybe get an outside opinion.

For example, I am fortunate to be married to a very sharp, intelligent and beautiful woman, Heidi. She’s just great. When we were first together, I realized an entirely new value for our relationship. She’s my “everyperson”. See, whenever I get bogged down in the details, I get her to watch an animation as soon as she’s available. I cringe at how poorly the timing on a movement might be, and ask for her opinion. She consistently says stuff like, “Wow, Jon, you’re so amazing, I just love the part where everything’s red…” Most of the time she could care less about whatever it is I’m fretting over. So, seen through her eyes, I realize that I don’t have to get everything timed down to the 1000th of a second.

What you may want to try ( I think Steve mentioned it) is to tap the beats out on your keyboard. Click on the audio layer in your timeline to highlight it. Then, press the decimal key on your numeric keypad to do an audio preview. Once the music starts, tap the asterik key on the numeric keypad along to the beat. Then, place keyframes for your other layers wherever those markers fall.

Then, while you’re pulling your hair out, get a second opinion.

Good luck!

Jon
TreeLine Productions
Fort Collins, CO USA

[Grains]

Hi John…

Thanks for the advice… You are indeed a lucky man to have a sharp ,smart, and beautiful wife to give you a second opinion on things.. My girfriend often does a similar job for me, and she also could often care less about some of the details i’m, obsessing over..

however, it is actually essential to me that I get the kind of tight sync that I’m talking about… To understand the kind of effect I want to achieve, I could only say you would need to see an example or two…
i would highly recommmend a copy of Meam’s ska019 DVD from shop.skam.co.uk/acatalog/Skam_Records_MEAM_6 (for STG

[Grains]

Hello again Jeff…

Ok, I have SoundKeys… looks like it should be the business.
But I’m having a problem.
Ok, I start it up, create a blank solid, preview the audio, watch the spectral graphic, Select a section of frequency to generate keyframes from, then apply it.. But it seems to generate a keyframe on every frame… I was expecting to see about 5 or 6 keyframes max for my selction..
any idea why this is?

Maybe I have to construct a seperate audio track, like a click track, with no sound in between the hits? surely not?

[Grains]

Hi Steve..

Thanks for that condensed and concise explaination of fields and framerates.. I was actually aware of interlacing and such but I had forgotten the name for the groups of slices on the screen… lost a few braincells a couple of years back! ehem..

But with my original post I should have mentioned some examples of the kind of effect I was trying to achieve with my animation. in particular, there is a DVD by ‘Meam’ (for which I just included a link to the distibutor in my reply to another suggestion to my post by Jonathan Miller.. save you going to check that reply- shop.skam.co.uk/acatalog/Skam_Records_MEAM_6 ,or Alex Rutterford’s video for Autechre’s ‘Gantz graf’)

If you can possibly check either of these pieces of video art out, I’m sure you would enjoy… both masterpieces, no doubt!

Thanks for all your help… I’m taking Jeff’s advice at the moment and buying a copy of Trapcode’s ‘Sound Keys’ .. sounds like it could be what I’m looking for..