Sequence Color Space?

[Chris Tompkins]

APP will use temp/editing codec. It will always reference back to your original files when you export. So, choose the destination codec when exporting, that is where you have control.

Chris

[Jef Huey]

Ok, but ProRes 444 can be either RGB or YCrBr depending on input. How can I “force” Premiere to feed it RGB? In the preview render settings, I don’t see anything about color space.

Jef

[Chris Tompkins]

You have a bit depth option when rendering, don’t think you have a color space option.
see pic:

Chris

[Jef Huey]

Yes, I noticed that. It would be nice to have a bit more control over sequence specs.

This is not easy to test, as I don’t know of a way to determine what is actually inside a ProRes 444 file (whether RGB or YCrBr).

This all relates to my questions about DPX earlier. Still struggling to get an acceptable output there.

Jef

[Ivan Myles]

Both Premiere Pro and ProRes are designed to maintain the source format. If you want RGB output from Y’CbCr input, I believe you will need to transcode to a non-ProRes RGB codec. How will you be using the output file, and why does it need to be RGB?

Adobe forum: How does P Pro handle YUV (YCbCr) and RGB color spaces?
Creative Cow: ProRes 4444: A Closer Look? (see last entry posted Dec 2, 2010 at 8:27:00 pm)
RedUser forum: Prores 4444 – YUV or RGB ? (see the last entry posted 09-10-2010, 10:31 AM)
Apple White Paper: Apple ProRes White Paper

[Walter Soyka]

[Jef Huey] “As I understand things about Premiere (and that is not much) the Sequence does not have an inherent color space. Is that true?”

Yes. Premiere is not color-managed. (I’ve filed feature requests [link] on this, and I’d ask you to consider it, too — I can imagine as a DS artist that this is important to you!)

[Jef Huey] “So my question is what is the color space when you bring Red footage into the sequence? Can you force it? For example if you wish to output Red footage to ProRes 444 and have the ProRes file be RGB, not YCrCb, can that be accomplished? “

I prefer to call RGB and Y’CbCr color models rather than color spaces, as the latter term is a bit more specific. Not all RGB systems use the same values for the same colors, nor all YCbCr systems.

I don’t think you can force the encode mode on the ProRes codec, but this doesn’t always matter. Whether it’s internally encoded as RGB or Y’CbCr shouldn’t matter, because it should also be properly decoded when you try to use it.

Of course, overbrights may present a problem…

[Jef Huey] “This all relates to my questions about DPX earlier. Still struggling to get an acceptable output there.”

I see your other thread [link], but I don’t really have a clear handle on what you’re asking here.

I’m not able to test it at the moment, but the Pr export setting presets should match the corresponding After Effects settings (see this embedded image on the forum):

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
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[Jef Huey]

Hi Walter,

Thanks for the info.

As for DPX (and it does relate to this thread) we are looking for a workflow for a project that will have Red footage as well as tradtional HD camera material that will have overbright footage.

I would like to be able to “bake” the sequence to DPX and maintain the overbrights for a Resolve color correction session.

This is quite easy in Avid DS. I have not been able to replicate the settings in Premiere yet.

Thanks,
Jef

[Tero Ahlfors]

[Jef Huey] “I would like to be able to “bake” the sequence to DPX and maintain the overbrights for a Resolve color correction session.”

You might want to use the logarithmic RED gamma settings to keep as much dynamic range in the footage as possible.

[Angelo Lorenzo]

I think it means over brights from the traditional HD camcorders.

RED’s R3D files don’t produce super whites in almost all circumstances. The one exception is exporting HDRx footage to OpenEXR which supports over-range 32-bit floating point color.

All the RED response curves roll off the highlights otherwise.

——————–
Angelo Lorenzo

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[Jef Huey]

That is correct. Red does not seem to make overbrights. Which makes sense as the doc for RedcineX says that the pipeline is Raw-To-RGB.

What I do wonder is what is the Red SDK feeding to the Premiere sequence?

RGB or YCrBr. I will guess RGB, but it would be nice to know.

Premieres doc is really bad IMHO.

Jef