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SD to HDV for live event question.
Hi, I’ve produced a live shoot for a medical show for the past 5 years using 3 Sony DSR-370’s with D-50 CCU’s for shading. This routes through a Screenpro Plus for live switching (lot’s of different inputs and outputs using audio delay) and capture has been via Barco Imagepro->Sony DSR1500-A to FCP via Firewire.
The question is how would this compare to using 3 Canon XH A1’s with capture via Sony HVR M-15U to FCP via Firewire. The HVR input would have to be composite as this is the only input on the HVR M-15U that can also go through a live production switcher (probably the screenpro or other multi-format switch (there are other sources involved…computers, etc.) It’s also the only choice on that deck.
I know I’m going to loose my camera control as there does not seem to be a CCU option for the Canon.
Will the image quality be as good or better in this scenario? Or should I just stick to the tried and true quality SD…
Thanks in advance.
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6 Replies
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“The HVR input would have to be composite as this is the only input on the HVR M-15U that can also go through a live production switcher” -R.G.
I’m not sure why Sony put a composite input on the back of that deck. The image on Sony’s page shows a composite input. However the specs indicate: Composite Input NA. If the composite input worked it would only be used for DVCAM recording.
https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/product-HVRM15AU/
The only way to get HDV into the deck is via Firewire. You already know that using Firewire over long distances, such as live events, doesn’t work very well. These consumer HDV cameras are quite a bargain, but they aren’t designed for live event multi-cam production. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with your current workflow. I would shoot/record everything full height anamorphic if possible. This yields better results if you need to upconvert to HD. If your clients start demanding HD production then budget accordingly.
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I agree completely with Greg on the challenges of using prosumer HDV camcorders for live events, and the lack of CCU would be a dealbreaker for me.
Are your clients asking you for HD? In my experience, most events seem to be sticking with SD — using HD for IMAG makes great makeup and lighting very, very important. On the other hand, where HD is necessary, HDV’s chroma subsampling may make it undesirable.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
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Wow, that is bizarre about the composite input. I did not even notice that. Imagine, Sony has an input on a deck that you can’t use, go figure? Must be a plug-in board somewhere that enables it (sarcasm)…The composite input likely is for SD DV-CAM. The deck seems to support that. Do you think I’m OK with the HVR-15U as a record deck via FW (DV-CAM) and capture to FCP in place of the DSR-1500a? It’s a cheaper rental and is the only reason for doing so.
The client is not requesting HD, yet… but they will. I was going to make this a trial run, but I think I’m better off sticking with what I know works and as you say “budget accordingly” when the time comes.
BTW, Do you have a recommendation for a 3 camera HD shoot with the kind of workflow I’ve outlined (Camera’s/Switcher/Deck)? The production switcher must be able to route to 3 separate scalable outputs – Live screen, local hi-res monitors (they receive GFX or video from different sources), and a record. For projection, I’m ok with with some mid-size Sanyo or Panasonic. 1280 would be fine.
Thank you so very much for your response.. I was away in the mountains this weekend and could not respond earlier..
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I agree with you completely regarding the CCU. Yes, you are right 4:1:0 is really not going to cut it. There is a great deal of detail in the image and most of the time the camera’s are fully zoomed. Lighting would definitely be an issue. Currently using some ARRI 650W, 300W and 150W’s. I need to rethink that.
The client is not looking for HD yet. So I’m sticking with what I know works and sleep better at night. I’ll have another year to consider the change over.
Thank you so much for you thoughtful response..
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Do you think I’m OK with the HVR-15U as a record deck via FW (DV-CAM) and capture to FCP in place of the DSR-1500a?
Where is the firewire coming from? The Barco ImagePro doesn’t appear to have FW out. You could feed S-video out of the ImagePro into the HVR-15U.
Do you have a recommendation for a 3 camera HD shoot with the kind of workflow I’ve outlined (Camera’s/Switcher/Deck)?
If you’re trying to save money by using a HVR-15U instead of DSR-1500, it’s likely that the sticker shock for a full HD show might cause cardiac arrest. Everything in the signal chain has to be upgraded: the cameras, the glass, cables, switcher, scopes, monitors, etc. Because of the prohibitive cost very few corporate events are utilizing HD at this time. If you want to do the research in preparation for the day that your client asks for HD – then get the pricing info from your staging company.
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Where is the firewire coming from? The Barco ImagePro doesn’t appear to have FW out. You could feed S-video out of the ImagePro into the HVR-15U.
Good point… Scrap that idea. I will stick with the workflow I have which gives me a component signal from the Imagepro->DSR-1500a->FW->FCP.
It seems that HDV is not quite up to job and that true HD switching/routing/lighting and projection package will be cost prohibitive.
Your advice is excellent and well taken. Thank you.
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