-
RS-422 Control of 1200A
-
[tony salgado] “I believe the real answer lies with Panasonic marketing which will answer the solution is to buy the 170 studio editing deck.”
You mean the same Panasonic marketing that shows a Powerbook connected to a 1200A on their website which even the folks at Apple tell me you should not do. You can edit DVCPro HD all day on a Powerbook, but you should never capture DVCPro HD footage on a Powerbook. We tested that here and you end up with footage that is degraded and looks very much like DV, rather than HD.
If you look all over the Apple website, you won’t find that same photo or any mention of capturing DVCPro HD to a laptop. At least, it wasn’t there the last time I searched all over for it.
Of course, that’s always the case. Marketing folks sell the moon and then it’s up to the engineers to deliver it.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.comNow editing “Good Eats” in HD for the Food Network
“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
-
[David Battistella] “It’s the same story with P2. When HD XD CAM is release with 45 dollar blue laser media and variable frame rates at NAB next year, Panny will again be relegated to scratching their heads and selling to students.”
I’m very interested to see how that new Focus Enhancements unit will work with the new 200 camera. Should be much more cost effective than the P2’s. Only question will be how noisy the unit is.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.comNow editing “Good Eats” in HD for the Food Network
“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
-
[Steve Mahrer] ”
I think we went through this issue recently with someone else on the Cow…. To reca, the AJ-HD1200A is not an “editing deck”, it is designed to hard record and play only. Any attempt to “edit” i.e. assemble a program tape by joining together numerous elements will result in nasty tape data errors at the edit points.Sorry for the bad news, maybe search back in time on the Cow’s archives to see the older postings for this issue)”
So that’s the only statement from Panasonic? Sorry you spent $32,000 on our VTR, but we’re not going enable Assemble Editing via RS-422 so you can create a timecode accurate master for broadcast?
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.comNow editing “Good Eats” in HD for the Food Network
“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
-
Well…WOW. What a firey thread.
I think we are lucky there is such a low cost HD option as the 1200A. I wish it had insert and assemble too, BUT it is a pro format HD VTR that can be had for 25K, well equipped, if you don’t mind shopping. It does play and record. Which is much more than the Sony play only J series decks. 1200A also gives you legacy DVCPro and Pro50 support.
There is some additional engineering and components like a flying erase head, which would increase cost.
Did anyone think HD was going to get this cheap, this fast?
So, here is how I would solve the problem on an Avid Adrenaline. Perhaps there is an equivalent work flow for the video hardware you use. I would simply take the LTC out of the Adrenaline and patch it to the TimeCode in on the 1200A. Add a little pre-roll to your sequence and when you crash in, the deck should be recording video, audio and timecode from your NLE sequence.
Chris Magid
RTVF -
[chris magid] “BUT it is a pro format HD VTR that can be had for 25K, well equipped, if you don’t mind shopping”
$32k with HD-SDI and Firewire options, which you need the Firewire to control the deck during Record.
[chris magid] “BUT it is a pro format HD VTR that can be had for 25K,”
Pro Format and Crash Record don’t go hand in hand in my book. Pro Format deck means RS-422 control for both record and playback.
[chris magid] “It does play and record. Which is much more than the Sony play only J series decks.”
Ok, you’re comparing a Player Deck with a Record Deck. Kind of apples and oranges wouldn’t you say? We could compare the HDCAM Player / Recorders or DigiBeta Player / Recorder, but why would we discuss the J-series player vs. the 1200A?
Both the J-series and 1200A offer RS-422 on playback, so they’re equal there. I actually own the J3/902 and it’s a fantastic workhorse of a machine which also saved me from wasting big money on another DigiBeta deck with features I don’t need. I’m already planning to add the JH-3 when the next HDCAM project comes into the shop. They’re a great option over purchasing a recorder since you generally ingest much more than you master.
If Panasonic had a DVCPro HD Player Only with RS-422 control for $6k or less, I would have happily purchased that instead. A “Pro Format” Player / Recorder offers RS-422 for both playback and record.
The one thing that still has not been answered to date is why the machine can accept RS-422 control for playback, but this is disabled during Record. Even engineers I’ve spoken to find that completely unbelieveable. If a VTR has RS-422, it should just work at all times.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com“The Rough Cut,” an original short film premiering December 7th in full High Definition in Atlanta.
rsvp@biscardicreative.com to reserve seats.
https://www.theroughcutmovie.com“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
-
The deck cannot do an ACCURATE assemble edit. Period. That is the issue. Not RS-422 control. There is far more needed to get the deck to insert or assemble edit than the remote contol “electronics”. Items like a flying erase head, facilities to set timecode for record, etc. All add expense, weight and heat.
What good is full record control when you will not be able to accurately target your inpoint? A nice luxury, but it isn’t going to make a deck assemble edit.
There has been plenty of PRO gear sold without edit capability. While the primary use of the 1200A is as a NLE feeder deck, the 1200A is a perfectly good RECORDER. Just not an EDIT RECORDER. This is the exact same case with the popular half rack SD93 Pro50 deck. And with some DvCam decks. And with a few BetaSP decks.
There is a work around…and that is a true crash edit while recording external timecode from your NLE. Gives you a 100% solid master. And I think this can even work over firewire.
There are also full rack, “studio” VTR models which add full edit capability and other goodies.
While it would be nice to throw the deck into record remotely, reaching over to push a button is not really that big of deal.
Right now the 1200A is THE CHEAPEST REAL HD play/record option.
And even the 1200A’s simple record ability is worth the price premium over the player only J series HD CAM decks. Which by the way have very poor, slow, delicate transports. While comparing formats like HDCAM to HD100 may be apples to oranges. The market segment in which these decks occupy is INDENTICAL. NLE or dub feeders.
And there is no inexpensive way to record HDCAM, crash edit or not.
There are good reasons to choose either format…and sometimes that choice is made for you.
Sure I wish we all could get more for less. But for the moment being able to edit and RECORD HD with cheap decks and even cheaper NLEs is pretty good.
Chris Magid
rtvf -
The deck cannot do an ACCURATE assemble edit. Period. That is the issue. Not RS-422 control. There is far more needed to get the deck to insert or assemble edit than the remote contol “electronics”. Items like a flying erase head, facilities to set timecode for record, etc. All add expense, weight and heat.
What good is full record control when you will not be able to accurately target your inpoint? A nice luxury, but it isn’t going to make a deck assemble edit.
There has been plenty of PRO gear sold without edit capability. While the primary use of the 1200A is as a NLE feeder deck, the 1200A is a perfectly good RECORDER. Just not an EDIT RECORDER. This is the exact same case with the popular half rack SD93 Pro50 deck. And with some DvCam decks. And with a few BetaSP decks.
There is a work around…and that is a true crash edit while recording external timecode from your NLE. Gives you a 100% solid master. And I think this can even work over firewire.
There are also full rack, “studio” VTR models which add full edit capability and other goodies.
While it would be nice to throw the deck into record remotely, reaching over to push a button is not really that big of deal.
Right now the 1200A is THE CHEAPEST REAL HD play/record option.
And even the 1200A’s simple record ability is worth the price premium over the player only J series HD CAM decks. Which by the way have very poor, slow, delicate transports. While comparing formats like HDCAM to HD100 may be apples to oranges. The market segment in which these decks occupy is INDENTICAL. NLE or dub feeders.
And there is no inexpensive way to record HDCAM, crash edit or not.
There are good reasons to choose either format…and sometimes that choice is made for you.
Sure I wish we all could get more for less. But for the moment being able to edit and RECORD HD with cheap decks and even cheaper NLEs is pretty good.
Chris Magid
rtvf
Reply to this Discussion! Login or Sign Up