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rough cut definition
I recently signed a contract with a director agreeing to make him a rough cut of his documentary. Is there a detailed (or general) description of what is and is not considered required for a rough cut that someone can help me out with? He is a new director and I think expects more than a rough.
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20 Replies
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I think the “assembly” or first rough cut, should include all the shots in pretty much the scripted sequence as shot, with appropriate place-holders or pre-vis standing-in wherever an element like a composite or graphic is not yet fully complete. The audio will not be finished or sweetened yet, sound fx may be absent or minimal, music may be temporary tracks or not present. The main idea is to get the whole thing up in more or less the order it was scripted in, the master shots and key cut-aways or close-ups, to get a sense of the timing and length. The scripted order is what was initially approved and how everyone expects to seethe cut. It may well be that after the first rough, you will go back and re-cut and re-arrange or add things.
From that point, you might re-order scenes and tweak all the timings and choices of angles, do a coloring pass, an audio pass, a music and effects pass, ADR, Foley, all on the second cut. Or those may get farmed out to others, each to their specialty, while you and the director work to further refine the master cut. Depends a lot on the size of the project, the deadlines, the budget, the amount of help and resources you have.
First Assembly or Rough Cut is almost never suitable for screening to anyone but the director and producer. Though if your actors did some awesome work that will likely get trimmed down or cut out of the final, this might be a nice time to let them see their performances.
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[Susie Lichter] “He is a new director and I think expects more than a rough.”
Of course he does. Rough cut meant something in the old days when we used to cut film, because it’s very hard to undo cuts or lengthen them when cutting film, so whittling down was always part of the plan.
Nowadays, the term rough cut no longer truly applies, because edits are non-destructive. So, today when a director asks for a rough, he simply means a first cut, and if it’s truly “rough” you may never work for that director again.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los AngelesPOST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW’s Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.
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Rough Cut: Preliminary stage in film editing, in which shots, scenes, and sequences are laid out in an approximate relationship, without detailed attention to the individual cutting points.
You can call it a rough cut, first cut, first pass, version 1 – whatever. In the end it’s a roughly laid out sequence of events. If you end up spending an hour making fine adjustments to a single edit then it’s no longer a rough cut. Manage your clients expectations and you’ll be fine.
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Quite honestly that should have been discussed with the Director AND put into the contract BEFORE you signed. You already sound like you’re resigned to the fact that the Director expects more of the rough cut than what you think it should be. So you’re already in trouble.
A Rough Cut is simply whatever the editor and the Director agree it will be. With non-destructive editing tools, we can change timelines at will.
In my definition, a rough cut is the entire timeline laid out, all selects pulled, maybe some placeholder music where it will be used for transitions, the only graphics are created with the basic text tool of the editing program, and there are usually text notes in the timeline such as “add SFX here.” I actually call these a “slap cut” because I literally just slap it together to see what we have to start with. Then from there we finesse.
On VERY important rule. NEVER destroy any of your timelines as you make changes. Even if you just change one shot, one graphic, whatever because there’s always the chance, usually a good chance, the Director will say, “Remember that shot / sequence / graphic we had two days ago? Why don’t we go back to that?” So every time I’m about to make a change to a timeline, I duplicate it. If we need to retrieve something from an earlier cut, it’s right there.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media“Foul Water, Fiery Serpent” now in Post.
Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital. -
Hey Walter, when you do that timeline duplication, is there a particular system or method you use to identify it, and where do you keep all the various iterations of the timeline, in the project file, or elsewhere?
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[Mark Suszko] “Hey Walter, when you do that timeline duplication, is there a particular system or method you use to identify it, and where do you keep all the various iterations of the timeline, in the project file, or elsewhere?”
In the Project file. In my primary Browser (using FCP) I have a bin called “Sequences”. In that Bin there are three more bins. “Working,” “Previous,” “Master.”
I always start with the first sequence called “Timeline Name_Cut 1” and that’s in the “Working” Bin.
When I duplicate the timeline, it becomes “Timeline Name_Cut 2” and the previous version moves up into the “Previous” Bin. I repeat this process as the project moves along. In the case of our “Foul Water, Fiery Serpent” documentary that has been cutting since March, we have almost 200 cuts of the 9 segments that make up the doc and there have been numerous times we have gone back to older cuts to bring back shots and other elements as we have needed them.
When the project is locked to picture and we’re ready to finish the show, I make another Duplicate which becomes “Timeline Name_Master” which moves into the Master Bin. If we have to do any alternatives to the main master, like a “Clean” “Short” “Long” etc…, those all remain in the Master Bin so we know exactly which cuts are mastered out.
Sometimes we’ll also name the cuts by dates for long terms projects like the documentaries.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media“Foul Water, Fiery Serpent” now in Post.
Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital. -
Because you guys signed this without agreeing on what “it” is, I’m afraid it’s open. You’ll hand him a rough cut then go from there. He’ll either be happy or he won’t and you’ll adjust your plan accordingly.
While a rough cut was an offline years ago, today it’s simply the first draft more often than not.
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Martin Baker has a great method for doing this that I love.
https://www.digital-heaven.co.uk/hot-tips-ep-5
Scott Davis
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We will do a “save as” and add the date/time to the name also.
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It’s a dry heat!Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .Ask me how to Market Yourself using Send Out Cards
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Here’s a phrase to live by: “Manage Expectations.” 🙂
This one time, I really messed up bad. $10,000 contract and I was proceeding slowly, so slowly that I felt I should include the “right” people in the cutting process, so I showed a rough cut to the Creative Director who showed it to the client who fired my ass.
I don’t do that anymore. No one gets to see a frame until I’m feeling good about it, ready to put my best cut out there every time no matter what because everyone has an opinion and they pride themselves on having an opinion that’s different from the other persons!
Under no circumstances should a screening be prefaced with “now, this isn’t finished yet.” Instead have the mind set of this is my best damn work.
Sorry, you didn’t clarify in the contract, first.
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