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Roles: got ’em to work.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “No it wouldn’t. Those sync tacks would move with the video. It would be one clip instead a bunch of disparate parts. If editing in the primary storyline, all you have to move is the clip in the primary and everything else that was attached would come along. I see this as more efficient and more simple, and even controlled.”
No, you didn’t understand what I was saying, osrry if I didn’t make it clear – I do understand how the magnetic timeline works by this point, thanks 😉
My point was about how the audio clips behave in a vertical sense – they fill the space available. Not desirable at all in this instance if I was to keep the original editor’s plan intact – without a whole load of unnecessary extra housekeeping.
Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
[Simon Ubsdell] “My point was about how the audio clips behave in a vertical sense – they fill the space available. Not desirable at all in this instance if I was to keep the original editor’s plan intact – without a whole load of unnecessary extra housekeeping.”
I guess I just don’t see it that way, especially if you used “Synchronized Clips” which would then have all of your audio, double system and everything tied to one video clip, and you can then enable only what you need to listen to. Couldn’t be more tidy than that. I understand that you have tried the timeline, I am just wondering if you have your proposed “impossible” scenario in FCPX. Really tried it, not just sorta tried it.
I’d be curious as to what you found.
Also, from your other post:
[Simon Ubsdell] “And the same thing goes for when I want to send my tracks off for the sound mix (via OMF). If they are organized long the traditional track model it will make immediate sense to the sound mixer what is what. At the moment, and unless Roles at some future date come to the rescue on this one, an OMF export via Automatic Duck from FCPX maintains the “random” arrangements of the source timeline. “
Have you exported Roles in stems yet and then brought that QT movie in to FCP7? You could see very easily how an OMF would work with Roles.
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Hey, you know what? I really commend your enthusiasm and I do honestly see a lot of potential in where this is all going and hope for the best from it, but I think we are going to have to agree to disagree as I think we are coming from two completely different worlds of editing … and I really don’t want to bore you with the details of mine 😉
I await further developments with genuine excitement but for me it’s still very much a work-in-progress that’s of academic interest only. Maybe by next Summer, who knows …?
Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
[Simon Ubsdell] “but I think we are going to have to agree to disagree as I think we are coming from two completely different worlds of editing … and I really don’t want to bore you with the details of mine ;-)”
Hmm. OK.
[Simon Ubsdell] “I await further developments with genuine excitement but for me it’s still very much a work-in-progress that’s of academic interest only. Maybe by next Summer, who knows …?”
I need video out. If it had video out, I would start to roll it in to honest to goodness paying jobs.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “I need video out. If it had video out, I would start to roll it in to honest to goodness paying jobs.”
Absolutely – once this is there I’m definitely going to start making the move, warts and all, as it’s just too interesting (an oddly fun) to ignore. Not really a plausible option until then, for me at least.
Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
[David Lawrence] “The horizontal space of a timeline defines time..”
Yes. Time as in length of program and that’s all. A clip @ 30 seconds and a clip @ 1.5 hours are not related by time.
[David Lawrence] “Everything on at timeline is always in horizontal relationship.”
It has been up until now (or if you use a nodal based system). In FCPX, the horizontal relationship is more user defined.
[David Lawrence] “Everything is always interacting horizontally.”
Really? Only because you have a track, right? What if a SFX was in track 6 @ 30 seconds, and a dialogue track was in track 6 @ 35 seconds, what relationship do those clips now have to each other except the wrong one?
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As a post color grader and audio editor/ mixer, all that really matters is to be able to get individual clips with handles out of FCPX via an interchange format like OMF/ AAF.
Audio systems will remain track based. There are a lot of important reasons why a trackless approach to audio post won’t work, so how FCPX gets a track based OMF exported is a matter for you editors to argue. But FCPX must be able to export an OMF from the editors timeline. Audio post facilities like mine that have full blown FCP installs are rare. Getting from offline lock to post is still required of an NLE. OMF is a base functionality that can’t be shunted to audio post people.
First impression of roles is that they are at worst an extra step in defining where media may end up in a track based system. At best they may be a new powerful way to manage timelines. All NLE timelines that I have imported into a system like Fairlight or ProTools have had the bulk of the tracks reorganised depending on a mix hierarchy that NLE editors don’t deal with. So it isn’t an important thing for editors to sort their media into actual physical tracks. Likelwise plugins, levels, keyframes all ignored, so a fancy translation isn’t worth developing either in my opinion. Having taken decades to finally get a robust interchange like OMF as a standard, I don’t think Apple would be wise to ditch that.
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[Michael Gissing] “But FCPX must be able to export an OMF from the editors timeline.”
WIth a plugin, it has been able to do so from day 1. I am sure more will follow.
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Okay, I’ll chime in here….and someone correct me if I’m wrong, I’ll own up to it. This should be open to discussion. But in this ‘modern age’ I’m getting awfully tired with certain terms being thrown around without any thought of where they come from. And the dumbing down of the system is numbing.
STEMS are not delivered to a mix stage. Apple got the term wrong. Nothing is a ‘stem’ until the final mix is completed. Going to audio post, the dialogue or whatever tracks you choose would be SPLIT out in either raw UNITS or, if you’ve done some mixing to the tracks beforehand, PREDUBS.
There is a history of this within the filmmaking community, but apparently the modern age can change the vocabulary with Clinton semantics.
And Simon is right: there is simply no substitute for getting the untouched audio out of whatever NLE you are using (via OMF/AAF as things currently stand) and mixing in a dedicated environment both software and physical (i.e. on a professional level DAW in a properly calibrated room with properly calibrated professional gear) – preferably with a properly trained audio professional. “
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[Jeremy Garchow] “WIth a plugin, it has been able to do so from day 1. I am sure more will follow”
Yes I knew that. My comment was partly a response to the idea that sound post people would be the ones to buy FCPX AND a plugin like Auto Duck. More importantly this should have been base functionality from day one, not reliant on expensive third party plugins.
With this update, the fact that they are working on other matters is worrying as a trend. I suspect Apple are just going to get XML functionality as the primary form of import/ export and rely on third parties to fill in the gaps. This is a sure recipe to ensure that basic things get broken regularly.
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