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Ripped DVD’s in FCP
I’m trying to better understand the nature of a ripped DVD in a FCP timeline. Using Mpeg Streamclip, I rip music videos from DVD’s that are supplied by various music labels. These ripped videos are destined for a 30-frame progressive timeline.
While checking the videos in Streamclip’s preview and advancing frame by frame (this is before I create my Quicktime movie), what I normally see with the frames is clear-clear-jaggies-jaggies-clear with every 5 frames. This is an interlaced video originally shot at 24fps and converted to 30 with 3:2 pulldown, but since I’m viewing it on my progressive computer monitor all of the mixed-frame jaggies from the pulldown are visible. This video would then need to be converted to progressive before dropping it into my FCP timeline. Am I correct so far?
Now, some of the videos go clear-clear-clear-clear-clear, but the 4th and 5th frames are practically identical. There are no jaggies with these, only those duped frames. Is this also a 24-to-30 converted video, but with a different pulldown? Would it be considered progressive?
Sorry for the long post, but some of the videos in my timeline look weird. Thanks,
Paul
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12 Replies
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Most music videos are shot on film (24fps) then telecined to tape (30fps), so yes, the jaggies represent the pulldown added to get them onto 30 frame media. Some are shot in HD at 24fps (progressive) and then end up on 30 frame media…those are the ones with the repeated frames.
AFAIK.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
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Everything I’ve read about that duplicate frame speaks of how unbearable it is to view, since it comes across as a stuttering kind of effect. I’ve watched these videos with my DVD player outside of any FCP work, but I guess I just don’t have a finely enough tuned eye, cuz I don’t think I notice this stuttering.
I guess adding this 5th frame six times a second is the only way to get 24p up to 30p.
Anyway, thanks for the clarification, Shane.
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[Paul Campbell] “Everything I’ve read about that duplicate frame speaks of how unbearable it is to view, since it comes across as a stuttering kind of effect”
It really doesn’t. When played it looks just fine. Think about all the TV shows you watched BEFORE HD. Simon & Simon, Magnum PI, Law & Order, Even Stevens, LA LAW, X-FILES…ALL of these shows were shot on film and telecined to digibeta at 29.97…with pulldown. Then edited ad 29.97, and mastered at 29.97. If you went thru frame by frame, you’d see the odd interlaced frames. But when you watch them…nothing. Looks normal.
I don’t know WHAT people are saying when they say “it looks odd…those duplicate frames.” You don’t see them at all when the show plays.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
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[Shane Ross] “I don’t know WHAT people are saying when they say “it looks odd…those duplicate frames.” You don’t see them at all when the show plays. “
Yep, I totally agree with you there. Can’t tell you how many HD Broadcasts I’ve edited in 720/60p when they were shot in 24 and 30. All I get are compliments from the networks for how outstanding our work is, duplicate frames and all!
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
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Even Stevens? Don’t think I know that one, but you must’ve been a crime show buff back in the good ol’ days.
I guess my eye isn’t so badly tuned after all. Thanks, gents.
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[Paul Campbell] “Even Stevens? Don’t think I know that one, but you must’ve been a crime show buff back in the good ol’ days.”
No….this was a kids show on the Disney Channel starting in about 2000. Know Shia LaBeouf from TRANSFORMERS and EAGLE EYE? This is where he started.
EVEN STEVENS is a show I worked on as an assistant editor…And it was shot on super 16mm and telecined to digibeta, then dubbed to 3/4″ for us to load for the offline cut. The digibetas used in the online. Typical TV production workflow from the 90’s and early 2000s. In the 70’s and 80s (and before) many of the shows you saw actually had editors working with film dailies and cutting shows on flatbeads.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
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[Shane Ross] “Think about all the TV shows you watched BEFORE HD. Simon & Simon, Magnum PI, Law & Order, Even Stevens, LA LAW, X-FILES…ALL of these shows were shot on film and telecined to digibeta at 29.97…with pulldown. Then edited ad 29.97, and mastered at 29.97. If you went thru frame by frame, you’d see the odd interlaced frames. But when you watch them…nothing. Looks normal.”
It doesn’t look normal anymore. It looked normal back then because CRT televisions are not affected by bad 3:2 cadence. Modern displays are.
Paul and Walter’s examples are different. Editing 24p on a 30p or 60p sequence is not nearly as bad.
Sean
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[Sean ONeil] ”
It doesn’t look normal anymore. It looked normal back then because CRT televisions are not affected by bad 3:2 cadence. Modern displays are.”Sorry to disagree with you, but I watch SLEUTH TV all the time…Magnum PI, Miami Vice, Simon and Simon…on my Panasonic Plasma TV. Looks totally fine.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
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Not everyone has an expensive plasma with a high-end deinterlacing chip. Most TVs can’t handle bad cadence. And most people’s TVs don’t even get the chance, their cable or satellite box does it and those things are awful at it. It’s also possible the channel you’re watching those shows on runs it through a Teranex. Not every station does that. If you edit 29.97 with 3:2 pulldown it won’t pass QC at most places. Sony, Paramount, and Universal will kick it back. For online delivery Apple won’t accept it. Just yesterday I got a list of deliverables for creating added-value content for a studio’s home video department. There’s an entire page explaining how and why not to do this and that non-continuous 3:2 cadence will not be accepted for NTSC or 1080i.
Honestly it’s a little disturbing that someone of your stature would advocate this.
I’ll give you an example. Here’s what your footage will look like on an LCD with no fancy deinterlacing chip:
https://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi2041708825/Here’s what my footage will look like on the same LCD:
https://www.apple.com/trailers/sony_pictures/hancock/Sean
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[Sean ONeil] “It’s also possible the channel you’re watching those shows on runs it through a Teranex.”
Why are you assuming that TV stations have now altered the way their air TV shows? Especially fledgling ones that are only found on cable and only air reruns? I’ll wager that the master tapes are betaSP or dubs from 1″ or 3/4″ masters. Terranex? NO way. These are just shows that are aired as they were originally mastered.
[Sean ONeil] “ot everyone has an expensive plasma with a high-end deinterlacing chip.”
No…mot even 40% of households have LCDs or Plasma TVs. Most are still good ol’ tube technology.
ANYWAY…we have strayed from the point. The point is, that 24fps with 3:2 pulldown playing back at 29.97 looks absolutely fine. Forget the fancy TVs of today…what about the 80s and 90s when all this was king? Shot on film, mastered on tape. Did it look bad? No. It looked great…it looked fine. And it still does. Specs have changed because technology has changed, thats all.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def
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