rendering sizes: Mainconcept vs. Sony

[Steve Rhoden]

I prefer always simply using Sony AVC.

Steve Rhoden
(Cow Leader)
Film Editor & Compositor.
Filmex Creative Media.
1-876-832-4956

[John Bean]

You can do a simple calculation to determine what your MAX file size will be for a CONSTANT BITRATE setting.

For a CONSTANT BITRATE of 16 Mb/s:

file_size = 16 Mb/s * (90 min * 60 s)
= 86400 Mb
= 10800 MB (= 86400 Mb / 8 bits per byte)
= 10.8 GB

So it should be clear that you are using a CONSTANT BITRATE setting of 16 Mb/s for your MAINCONCEPT render.

The Sony AVC codec only does VARIABLE BIT-RATE.

So if you change the setting to VARIABLE BIT-RATE, then the MAINCONCEPT codec will rendered out a file that is similar in size to what Sony AVC is giving you.

If you don’t know difference between CONSTANT and VARIABLE BITRATE, Google is your friend! :p

Will you be using DVD Architect?

[Andy Abulafia]

Hi John…. thanks for your help.

So, if by way of an experiment I render w/Mainconcept using variable bitrate, making max (say) 16mbps, average 3.4mbps it should come in closer to the Sony AVCHD var bit rate file?

I guess I was surprised as my Sony AVCHD .mts source files are about 2gigs per 10 minutes.

Will report back!

———————-
Vegas 11, Win7, Intel i7 w/12GB RAM – In need of a decent SSD, methinks 🙂 Sony TG5V, Kodak Zi8, Playtouch.

[John Bean]

I use MAINCONCEPT whenever I can over Sony AVC.

Reason being I have more control over the settings. With MAINCONCEPT I can set min and max, as well as 2-PASS.

I believe Sony AVC just does 1-PASS, hence, why it is quicker to finish rendering than MAINCONCEPT.

So I trust MAINCONCEPT to do a better job than Sony AVC.

Your BITRATE settings really just depend on your requirements and the quality of your project media.

So I can’t really give you an answer to what you should set it too.

QUESTIONS you should ask yourself are:

What are the BITRATES of your project media? Are they high or low? What is the MAX BITRATE for all your source media files? What is the MIN BITRATE for all your source media files? What is the average BITRATE of all your source media files?

Have you done a lot of restorations and corrections to your video?

Are you doing a lot of intense high activity scenes, transitions, texts, or effects?

What is the maximum file size requirement for the final deliverable for your project?

Where are you storing your output rendered video? On a Blu-ray? Uploading to YouTube?

For example, Blu-ray defines a MAXIMUM BITRATE restriction of 40 Mb/s for video and a maximum overall bitrate of 48 Mb/s at any given time in your video (which includes audio streams, subtitles, and Bluray menu and title features).

So these are all the types of questions you should asking yourself in order to figure out what BITRATE settings best works for your own project.

Also, check the BITRATE info for your Sony AVC rendered file. Based on the file size, it appears it is only 3.8 Mb/s. Even though you used a setting of 16 Mb/s, I don’t think Sony AVC could find enough bits to obtain 16 Mb/s.

So the quality of project media files may be in question here. Your project media files may not be of high bitrate quality equal-to or greater than 16 Mb/s to begin with. Or maybe alot of your footage is of simple pictures with very little details and colors (very smooth and uniform).

So yeah, do some tests with MAINCONCEPT.

Cheers!

[Andy Abulafia]

hi again John and thx for detailed info! OK regarding some of your points…

SOURCE BITRATES: low end consumer stuff – sony avchd camcorder constant-ish bitrate 16-17mbps and kodak .mov/mp4 cameras (around 14mbps i think – which weirdly when i go to mediaInfo do not give me the bit rates, leastways not so i can understand). Not getting anywhere near 40mbps or anything like that

EFFECTS ETC: almost nothing, no transitions, the odd fade in/out here and there but almost nothing. no video effects, titling etc. No stills. No cool swirling 3d stuff going on

MAX FILE SIZE: size no object! quality is preferred above anything else… the target is to play on at least 2 of our 3 different media players which all manage .m2ts files nicely (popcorn hour, WDTV, ASUS) – but ideally be compatible with blu ray should I ever get round to it one day in the future, or if anyone ever wants my projects on a disk

TESTING W/MAINCONCEPT
ok so I took my simple footage and changed bit rate max to 16mbps and average to 3mbps. And would you believe it, the file is STILL around 12GB!! So either something technically is way off (unlikely) or my understanding is way off (more likely)…. 🙂
cheers…

———————-
Vegas 11, Win7, Intel i7 w/12GB RAM – In need of a decent SSD, methinks 🙂 Sony TG5V, Kodak Zi8, Playtouch.

[John Bean]

Did you check the BITRATE info for the MAINCONCEPT rendered out file?

What does it say?

Again, if the file size is 12 GB, given your time of video length of 1.5 hours, that is suggesting that your bitrate is around 16 Mb/s.

Maybe you are setting the MINIMUM BITRATE to 3 Mb/s and your AVERAGE BITRATE to 16 Mb/s.

For MAINCONCEPT variable bitrate, there are 3 bit-rate settings you can set: minimum, average, and maximum.

Given that your source project media files are 16-17 Mb/s, and you are not doing anything fancy with them, then you are probably good to stick with 16 Mb/s as your average bit-rate since size is not an obstacle for you.

How is the visual quality of the MAINCONCEPT rendered out file? Is it similar to your source media files?

Your Sony AVC file of 2.5 GB does seem rather small for 1.5 hours with source media files that are 16-17 Mb/s. How is the visual quality for this file? It should be not as great as your source media files and your MAINCONCEPT rendered out file.

Cheers!

[Andy Abulafia]

yeah let me check that out when i get back from work., thanks John!

———————-
Vegas 11, Win7, Intel i7 w/12GB RAM – In need of a decent SSD, methinks 🙂 Sony TG5V, Kodak Zi8, Playtouch.