Removing Duplicate frames – Post capture (varicam 720p 23.98 source)

[Izoneguy]

Try using the Frame Rate Converter….
There is a tutorial on it somewhere…
try a search…
I don’t use it much but I remember
I had to duplicate the clip and drag into
another bin and then use the FRC on the duplicate clip.
Good Luck

[John Rhee]

yeah I tried that, but it keeps giving me an error after about 30 to 40% progress bar. I’ll try it using shorter clips.

[Gary Adcock]

[John Rhee] “If I bring the clip into the 23.98 timeline, it creates a stuttering motion. What is the best solution to removing duplicate frames?”

many people think 24 fps content looks odd when they are viewing a true 23.98 frame rate.
are your drives fast enough? are you sure tha content was handled correctly when you Dig’ed it? Some versions of the the software drivers for your card may not be able to pass the flags when the cadence changes on long clips.

[John Rhee] “but it keeps giving me an error after about 30 to 40% progress bar. I’ll try it using shorter clips.”

that will not do you any good, the FRC will not properly function with sub clips- the software needs the entire cadence to be able to understand what is going on. if you subclip a file the cadence of the pulldown will be incorrect and the clip with not pass thru the FRC.

The same holds true when Using “capture now” the video may start on frame 2 or 4 instead of 0 or 5 and the software cannot understand the problems.

if it the process is failing and you know it is shot at 24p you can use Cinema tools to extract the content.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

[John Rhee]

I’ve worked with 24p numerous times. I’ve worked on film transfer that I properly reverse telecined to 23.98 so I’m familiar with the way that 24p looks like. My drives are a 6 disk SATA RAID system that puts out over 200MB/s read and 175MB/s write. This is my first time however working with a shoot that was shot with varicam. This much I do know. The varicam doesn’t use pulldowns when recording 23.98p unto 59.94. It duplicates progressive frames. When I bring it into a 23.98 and render the clip out, it stutters because there are duplicate frames all throughout. With that I’m afraid Cinema Tools is know good because it doesn’t know how to handle duplicate frames. As a test, I’ve tried bringing the clip into Cinema Tools. The reverse telecine button is grayed out (Can’t select it).

As far as content, I pretty much just hit play and used “capture now” on FCP 5.0.4 running Decklink HD Pro (Dual) using drivers 5.4.2. Although this much I was able to figure out. On some of the clips, when I brought it into a 23.98 timeline, it properly converted it so there was smooth motion, but other clips, it was stuttering. So I believe you are correct in the sense that because I logged in an entire content of the tape, the driver was not properly handling the changing flags. Either way somebody needs to create a software that can remove these duplicate frames for situations like this that I’m in.

[Gary Adcock]

[John Rhee] ” The varicam doesn’t use pulldowns when recording 23.98p unto 59.94. It duplicates progressive frames.”

John
the varicam records the industry standard 3:2 cadence for content recorded at 24p ( 23.98) and yes CT can handle the footage, and yes that cadence is progressive but it is handled in the same manner.

[John Rhee] “As far as content, I pretty much just hit play and used “capture now” on FCP 5.0.4 “
Ok- this is where you shot your self in the foot. “Capture Now” in FCP is not smart enough to force capture to start on the 0 or 5 frame, and this alone can cause discontinuity in the redundant frames and FCP is not smart enough to understand what the issue is so it just quits.

[John Rhee] “Either way somebody needs to create a software that can remove these duplicate frames for situations like this that I’m in.”

they do it is called log and capture. by properly setting in and out points on a tape the software will adjust so that the correct info is captured. By ” Crash” capturing you told the software that you did not care. Had you set the capture to be 720p24 fcp can properly function if the content is all the same frame rate ( ie not using variable frames)

gary
Post Instructor
HD Expo’s Varicamp

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

[John Rhee]

Hey Gary,
thanks for the info but here is the situation. First of all I’m not using firewire to capture but rather HD-SDI, I would have liked to but the deck did not have that card.

“Had you set the capture to be 720p24 fcp can properly function if the content is all the same frame rate ( ie not using variable frames)”

Second, I did a few minute test at the 720p24 capture setting. The video played in slowmo while the audio maintained its regular speed. The original footage was all shot at 23.98 fps. So no variable frame rate.

You are right that I should have done a log and capture, but that was not an option because we had the deck for one day and also the client wanted a DVD video copy of all of the tapes.

And thanks again for the clarification about the 2:3 pulldown, but I still don’t get why when I brought a clip into Cinema Tools, that the reverse telecine was grayed out (unselectable). I’ve reverse telecined a lot and usually, in fact always, that reverse telecine button is ready to go, except when I bring in this particular captured footage. I’m going to try again.

[Gary Adcock]

[John Rhee] “First of all I’m not using firewire to capture but rather HD-SDI, I would have liked to but the deck did not have that card.”

SO, and when did I mention FW??? –your problem has to do with your working method and your capture card.

[John Rhee] ” The original footage was all shot at 23.98 fps”
Unless your camera is set to internally in the service menu to 60hrz, 24p in video in the Varicam is ALWAYS 23.98.

I have never had any of these issues with my Kona Cards and varicam footage.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

[John Rhee]

Hey Gary,
Some of us unfortunately don’t have the resources to have a HD deck around all the time like you do to be able to sit there log and capture or even to play and learn. And also who cares about my method for this project – which under the circumstance and situation, I had to capture the entire 6 tapes of 43 minutes each. Understood it is better to log and capture – I do that for all of my other SD/film projects. My question from day one, and you can clearly see from the subject matter, has and always been how to solve this problem “POST” capture. And much as I’m appreciative of you pointing out the work flow and other technical information, I’m looking for answers and fixes. Honestly by you stating that you never had a problem with Kona and Varicam doesn’t help me at all. I appologize if my previous emails sounded complacent – I am a very detail specific person. Unless you have techniques and information that is more useful to me, I thank you for this enjoyable discussion.

[Izoneguy]

Hello John,
contact me at:

dvd.pro@verizon.net

You could upload a clip to me and I can help
analyze and trouble shoot…..

Thanks

Michael Schrengohst

[Gary Adcock]

[John Rhee] “Some of us unfortunately don’t have the resources to have a HD deck around all the time like you do to be able to sit there log and capture or even to play and learn.”

I do not own an HD deck, I rent as I go.

[John Rhee] “has and always been how to solve this problem “POST” capture.”

In an FCP workflow, Cinema Tools is about your only choice if you cannot get the FRC to run as I have previously said.
You are using the correct version of the FRC for your version of final cut ?? In 5.1 and later you have to use the version that ships on the install disk.

You need to consider the possibility that some happened in the capture process that is inhibiting your ability to process the footage correctly, discounting that may cause you to repeat this problem in the future.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

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