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Really? No One Has Seen this?
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[Rafael Amador] “If they wanted, Teranex or AJA could release an application with which you could get exactly the same quality conversion in a lap-top.
The hardware will gives you the speed but the quality depends only of the software that is installed. “Not exactly. AJA designs stand-alone hardware converters. In order to replicate what they are able to do with their hardware, they would have to have certain components built right into your computer.
This is especially evident when you run the Konas in the Pass Through Mode or when you use any of their mini converters to make realtime conversions. Then they are just running in hardware mode only with zero input from the computer.
So no, they really couldn’t release a software only version of their converters that would look equally as good as their hardware converters because without the hardware, you’re missing an important piece of the equation.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
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Hi Walter, how’s the coffee this morning?
I think you and Rafael both make good points. Once video is in the digital world, anything that happens to it is a product of simply manipulating ones and zeroes. Software, or rather a computer running software, can do that. Chips of various types do some of the drudgery, while clever software supplies the intelligence and art if you will.Those chips can help the software designer by doing things very fast and very reliably. That gives us two things–real-time speed and quality. The AJA products use hardware to good advantage. They process digital video internally at a very high quality level. Think in terms of 32-bit floating point and all that. To write software strictly for the CPU to do that is no easy task and I think I can safely say that all software is ultimately a compromise. Bits will be lost or changed in ways that hurt the final video quality.
The real value to you and me happens when somebody puts together a system of specialized hardware and software with a great understanding of what we need and want. That’s what we find in the AJA, Terranex and other products.
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[Rafael Amador] “There is not a software solution compared to a Teranex or an AJA Kona because “software solutions” gives less benefits and more headaches to the manufacturers. If they wanted, Teranex or AJA could release an application with which you could get exactly the same quality conversion in a lap-top.”
While Tom make a couple of good comments in his reply, let me note that this example could not be more misleading. Hardware companies write code and applications for the FPGA (field programable gate array) or the hardware chipset not for a GUI based application.
People who write code for chips do not write apps that users need- its not what they do.Think about this, if it was as easy as you claim, someone would have done it by now, however remember that all of that processing requires massive amounts of mathematical processing to handle the task, EVEN on a Teranex the output delay is between 2 and 45 seconds based on how much processing the image needs.
So if a dedicated piece of hardware takes 30 seconds to process your video – how long do you think that your underpowered minimal configured CPU is going to handle that same process- it would make HDV re-conforms look realtime by comparison ESPECIALLY on that laptop you mentioned.
/ RANT
The bigger issue I see is the blatant disregard of the common practices commonly used in broadcast.
VIdeo should be converted WITHOUT graphics- people having the biggest issues are trying to cut too many corners and are not knowledgeable on the rules for graphic conversions.geez if they just looked at how one of the big networks does graphics for conversions on their HD signal it would open some eyes.
There are a couple of hundred stations in the US that use AJA’s FS1 converter for their broadcast conversions. The Tonight Show uses AJA products for the down conversion of their nightly broadcast.
But someone with an HDV camera that did not think about or understand that those HD graphics are going to be 1/4 the size when converted to SD and did not bother to test his workflow- does not understand the nature of how all of this stuff works.RANT/
ga
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production WorkflowsInside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php -
Hi Gary,
What I simply mean is that those so call “hardware solutions” in the end are just “Better-software solutions” ran in a dedicated processor.
You know well Gary that in an analog system every single element of the chain can degrade the signal introducing noise or producing differential Gain/Phase or whatever. The very physical/chemical properties of the components will determine the quality of the signal. Even the quality of the metal used for soldering the circuits.
In digital this do not happens because is all about maths. If you have the correct formula, any machine able to do the calculations will yield the same results.
And to wish you the best for the remaining of this 2009.
Cheers,
Rafael -
[Rafael Amador] “What I simply mean is that those so call “hardware solutions” in the end are just “Better-software solutions” ran in a dedicated processor. “
No, not really. These hardware solutions are hardware solutions. It’s not just a “dedicated processor.” It’s the entire configuration of all the elements inside that hardware. Open up one of those converters and it’s more a “dedicated processor.”
As Gary notes, if it could be done in software only, it would already be out. There are plenty of cheap software scaling / conversion tools out there, but nothing, and I mean nothing, compares to hardware based conversion tools. You need the correct hardware in order to route the video and convert that video on the fly in pristine quality.
Dumbing it down to ‘better software solutions’ really doesn’t speak to what these devices do and the advantages they bring to a production.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
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[Rafael Amador] “If you have the correct formula, any machine able to do the calculations will yield the same results. “
yes,
but at what cost? how long are you willing to wait?As I said if it takes dedicated hardware 15 frames to process one frame it would take an underpowered CPU hours per frame- increasing wear and tear on your computer, using more energy,
and decreasing your productivity.Rafael, you assume that this has not been tried, it was and rejected for most, however some of those software tools do exist- the Foundry makes plugin’s for this function as does Agolith, but the power consumption is 10x what one dedicated piece of hardware can do and needs to be run on multiple machines to get something like overnight processing.
welcome to the new world.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production WorkflowsInside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php -
Whoa! This has become an interesting string of comments all of the sudden. Rafael, you are correct I think in saying hardware encoding is essentially hardware with dedicated software. I’d also have to agree with Walter. I’m not sure this is the kind of distinction that is useful in this instance. Gary, your commentary is illuminating as usual. You all seem to know a lot more about his than me.
I worked my way up through the ranks here so I’ve touched a lot of different technology. I haven’t edited anything in a linear bay for almost two years but I have a good bit of experience in them. My point was that Rich’s problem is related to the fact that he is using a computer versus a dedicated hardware system. He will find a solution, but this would be a relatively easy edit in an on-line suite with multiple DMEs. I’m just sayin, it would work, it could be truly scaled in real time.
‘What works’ is what I’ve tried to base my career on (haha!)
Thanks all
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Rich – I posted on this same subject (FCP scaling) a while ago as well.
It looks like my original post has been truncated, but here’s a link to my report.
https://www.jointeditorial.com/dave_tech/FCP_HD-SCALING-FINAL.htm
and the resulting discussion at:
https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/958052
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