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Re-interlacing footage at the broadcasters request: normal or not?
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Doh! Of course. In Walter’s case, he’s starting from a 720p60 (emphasis on “60”) source, which of course makes it much easier to interlace it later into a 1080i60 (i.e. 30fps) master. I was thinking of it from my point of view, where I have 25p footage that I have to convert somehow to 25i. Sorry, I hadn’t realized about this.
And, arc nevada: I’m not trying to fight any battle. As I said in my first post, we’ve already make arrangements to start shooting in interlaced and to try to “re-interlace” the progressive footage we already shot. I posted here just to gather some opinions, to see whether it’s the guy in the TV channel who is on crack or it’s me.
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Good point. Arc has proven he doesn’t quite get it when he says it’s reduced to 320×240. Perhaps he means 720×240? There’s no reason the horizontal would ever be comprimised. Anyway, if you actually wanted to see something that is half rez, deinterlace some progressive OR interlaced footage and choose to repeat a field instead of interpolate. THAT is what you get if you actually had half the rez. It look quite a bit different than progressive, which, even in interlaced land, arguably is much sharper than interlaced, but as we all know, not as smooth and definititively jerkier.
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[Larry Asbell] “And stop saying “because both fields looked the same (as they had to, since the original footage was progressive).””
Sorry :-). What I meant is that, when looking at the prog. footage field by field in Avid or After Effects, there’s movement only every two fields; in other words, both fields in a frame are the same (or at least, Avid and After Effects display them as the same). Since that’s the method we usually use to examine field information, I tend to think in those terms.
Paulo.
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Not that I’m sure I can be bothered to weigh in further, the end of the last post should probably say “difference between 50i and 25p”, since these are the two choices.
In the UK and other PAL countries i have delivered to, both are acceptable based on the series format. The basis of this conversation was some seemingly ill informed comments. I think we disproved them, but I’m not really sure any more.
Ben
Editec Broadcast Editing Ltd
EVS & FCP specialists for live broadcast.
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I’d be very curious to know which broadcaster as the BBC regularly comissions shows shot in progressive HD, broadcasts them, and has never to my knowledge asked for a show shot in progressive to be made into fake interlace. The BBC have even happily broadcast interlaced acquisition that has gone through a deinterlace process to make fake progressive, which when not done well, as it often isn’t, can look lower resolution than it should.
That the “technical” person you spoke to doesn’t understand progressive, and doesn’t understand that the vast majority of video based UK drama is shot this way, is quite beyond me.
However, it is usual to go over shooting specs and delivery specs before the programme is made. Was this done and did you inform them of your intent that it would be a filmic production? Of course, had you shot on film, it would be telecined as 25p also.
I see no technical problem with you shooting and delivering 25p unless, and this I highly doubt, the camera guy shot in a non-filmic style and the pans are all too fast and stutter badly.
Please inform us all of how this interesting issue develops.
– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP
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Little of what you said has been either accurate or of any use to him. The arguments you make about frame resolution and field resolution were just wrong, and do not apply when you are dealing with 25p versus 50i – most especially when mastering from FCP, which does not cause any loss in resolution when dealing with progressive footage.
As I said repeatedly, the only difference between these two choices (and not some other irrelevent NTSC or 24p options that seem to have drifted into this discussion) is motion information, and the overall look resulting from it.
Normally I wouldn’t bother continuing this discussion, but I re-read it, and I’m not sure why you continue to weigh in and confuse the original poster. As Graham says below, 25p is widely accepted – not just by the BBC (who know a few things about video quality) but also every other broadcaster I have worked for. It’s very simple really, and much of this thread drifts into tangents that just don’t help and just aren’t right.
Sorry.
Ben
Editec Broadcast Editing Ltd
EVS & FCP specialists for live broadcast.
OB Server 1 HD – Mobile FCP editing done right.
https://www.editecuk.com/OBServer2.html -
This guy is an idiot. If he is the head tech guy and has never heard of a progressive source then he should be sacked. What a tool.
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Furthermore…
I REALLY hate it when technicians chastise me for a creative decision made long before we start shooting. Who the hell do they think they are?! Now, if the master fails due to luma/chroma issues etc then fine, but to say it’s not acceptable because it’s progressive is just lame, power tripping madness. Get back in your box with your oscillascope and pocket protectors I say!
Arc Nevada, is english your first language?… because you contradict yourself at almost every post.
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[Kris Anderson] “Now, if the master fails due to luma/chroma issues etc then fine, but to say it’s not acceptable because it’s progressive is just lame, power tripping madness.”
Not when it’s clearly labeled in the specs. I deliver to four networks, one in Europe, and none of them accept progressive masters. All must be 1080i/29.97. If they are not, they fail.
It is not power tripping madness. It is called a network standard and you must follow all of their standards in order to pass Quality Control.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR
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[Graeme Nattress] “The BBC have even happily broadcast interlaced acquisition that has gone through a deinterlace process to make fake progressive, which when not done well, as it often isn’t, can look lower resolution than it should.
That the “technical” person you spoke to doesn’t understand progressive, and doesn’t understand that the vast majority of video based UK drama is shot this way, is quite beyond me.”
Shooting progressive and delivering progressive are two completely different things. I don’t deliver to any networks that accept progressive Masters, they all must be 1080i/29.97.
We convert all our 720p material to 1080i using the AJA Kona 3 which does absolutely outstanding conversions. All of our 1080i masters have passed quality control with zero issue.
If I were to deliver a 720p Master, even though the show might be shot in progressive, the show will fail Quality Control.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR
The new Color Training DVD now available from the Creative Cow!
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