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Raw Footage, No Contract, No Deal
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“Messin’ with the big boys now” …. so, the “Big Boys” have their music vids shot on DV now?
I.A.N.A.L., but my opinion personally is:
The original footage remains yours, unless specifically mentioned otherwise in a VALID contract. Your deal was to deliver a finished product. Did you? Then you should get paid. Verbal contracts without any proof are not worth the paper they are not written on. Contracts also are unenforceable unless proven valid, for example thru proof there was “consideration”. Meaning, in this case, there is a canceled check or receipt to prove money, any amount of money, changed hands. With only a verbal agreement and no exchange of money, I doubt a judge is going to rule that there was a valid contract. You can ask the judge to force the artist to give you back the master, if you have not been paid. The burden will be on them to prove they paid you. If they want your raw footage and have no contractual basis to claim it, it’s your right to keep it or sell it to them for however much you care to charge. It is less clear legally that you would be able to use that raw footage for any other purpose, but let’s leave that aside for now. Bottom line right now is: you own it. If they want it, and you’re willing to sell it as a separate deal, that’s between the two of you. If keeping your name on your work is that important to you, I’ve got news: this client doesn’t strike me as one that will keep that bargain, once they have what they wanted. You may have to just resign yourself to the fact this project is never going to be publicly seen, under the conditions you want.
As far as the client’s personal baggage about their religion, it has no bearing on the deal, unless there was a written and co-signed memo about it. Clearly, this person and you are not a good fit, Domenique, and you should cut your losses and part ways. No good will come or continuing to communicate with this person or anybody but his/her actual lawyer. A real lawyer will tell you his name, heck, his real lawyer is going to send you written materials. Insist on all communication being by written and certified mail. I think this client;s behavior is all bluffing and bullying from a borderline crazy person. BTW, that has nothing to do with them being religious, necessarily. Plenty of crazy agnostics out there as well.
Next time they call you quoting scripture, tell them to look up Matthew: “The worker is worth his wage”, and hang up. Use caller ID to block further crank calls, record incoming calls and keep a log. Build evidence for a harassment case. Or just walk away. These types feed on drama, and more attention only nurtures their illness. You can find other religious artists that don’t have the same baggage.
Mostly, don’t be intimidated. Jesus ministered to sinners and unbelievers, tax collectors and prostitutes, without shame. He came to save ALL. If it’s good enough for Jesus, it’s good enough for you, I should think. Talk to your atheist friend as and when you like, this “artist” has no right to judge you for it. Frankly, if only half of what you’ve described about this interaction is true, the artist isn’t much of a true Christian in the first place.
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This is simple, all of the religion BS aside, if they want the raw footage charge them a fee per tape and hand it over. You were paid for the shoot and the edit, that part is done, holding onto raw footage you can’t use is worthless.
This dick waving contest is not worth your time or the money you would spend on a lawyer.
http://www.MediaCircus.TV
Media Production Services
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada -
Lol @ “dick waving contest.” Scott if I had one to wave I sure wouldn’t do it around another man. But I already think I know where that’ll go if I charge him for the tapes..he said they belong to him since his face is on them..smh. I’ll go ahead and tell him I’ll charge him for them IF he calls again. He might be done with this bluff hopefully.
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[Scott Carnegie] “f they want the raw footage charge them a fee per tape and hand it over.”
They didn’t call him asking to buy the footage nor did the calls seem to indicate any willingness to negotiate a fair price. They called and threatened him with legal action instead in addition to personal attacks based on religion. Just a guess but I doubt they’d pay any fee at all.
Also vindictive clients may not “go away” even if you give them the tapes. They may then claim all sorts of problems with the tapes and demand you make good. They accidentally crease the tapes and blame you. They see sections with poor video and audio that weren’t used in the final production and blame you. The raw footage is uncorrected and blame you for a bad shoot. The client puts the tape in wrong type of deck and can’t playback the tape and blames you. Handing over raw footage can leave you vulnerable to a vindictive client.
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[Dominique Lee] “dick waving contest.””
Metaphorically 🙂
Obviously this “artist” is incorrect about the ownership of the tapes, just becasue his image is on them doesn’t mean anything. IMO it’s better to appease and quickly be done with people like this, it’s not worth the headache. BUT, make a copy of the tapes, have them sign something about you being able to use portion of the raw footage for demo reel purposes and drop these folks 🙂
http://www.MediaCircus.TV
Media Production Services
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada -
Like Gary, this sounds to me like a bad bluff. I know loads and loads of lawyers, and there isnt’t one of them who ever makes frivolous calls to the opposition in a legitimate legal matter. They’d look at this situation as a waste of their time, and none would take two seconds to pursue something like this unless they thought it had potential to generate billing of at least 50 to $100k. So, you’re dealing with idiots who are just hoping you’re so green you’ll fold like a bad tent.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.comPOST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.
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Send him a bill and sue in small claims if he doesn’t pay. Keep any and all letters, emails, answering machine recordings as evidence. Have everyone write down dates of phone calls and content. Do this NOW.
In the future, get 50% up front. And deliver only when they have MONEY. He planned this from the beginning and has you scared to death.
Learn this when you’re young.
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It’s a dry heat!Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .Ask me how to Market Yourself using Send Out Cards
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Don’t give that jerk nuthin’. YOU own the tapes and the copyright. HE owns the rights to his image. Neither of you have nuthin’.
I have dealt with his kind before and they have never prevailed. Consider this a lesson in bad human nature. Newbies get so excited that they get to do something, they forget that it’s a business, not a creative outlet.
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It’s a dry heat!Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .Ask me how to Market Yourself using Send Out Cards
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Apparently you missed this:
[Dominique Lee] “I was paid.”
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I’m choosing to let him do as he pleases. This whole thing is ridiculous. I don’t wish to speak to or hear from him.He’s threatened me, insulted me, and has tried to take advantage of me. If he choses to take everything to court so be it. He’s going to look like a fool regardless. I know what I own, I know what I can’t use, and I know what I was paid for. He’s just having a huge ego trip. And I’m not responsible for feeding that.
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