RANT! Editors who don’t know how to ‘drive’

[Walter Biscardi]

Great Post! I hear you on all points.

How many posts have we seen here for “automatic logging” or “auto scene detection” or auto just about everything an Editor actually gets paid to do.

Most of the new editors I meet today want to tell me about their plug-ins and how many layers they can cut on. I ask them to show me a story with straight cuts only, no effects. They freeze. Everyone seems to forget that editing is:

1 – Monotonous. We look through a LOT of raw material and log all the shots because that’s what we get paid to do. Nothing automatic about that.

2 – Storytelling. The best effect in the world is a well timed cut and a well placed dissolve. Just watch any movie.

3 – Demanding. As you noted we are now editors, engineers, graphic artists, compositors, sound designers and now colorists.

Yeah, most of the new folks I see coming out of college all learned on high end Avid or FCP systems but really don’t have a clue how it operates, but then I’m sure the schools didn’t want them monkeying around with them. The difference is the new editor who truly wants to learn and I’m very lucky to have found an incredible editor right out of college that knows how to tell a story and is willing to learn.

They’re rare but out there.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! https://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! https://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi

[Oliver Peters]

Steve,

1. You can hire different editors who know what they are doing.
2. Hire assistants who are skilled on the technical side to assist editors who might be valuable for their creative talents.
3. Bring in someone to train them.
4. Knock done their pay.

Sincerely,
Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Steve Covello]

1. You can hire different editors who know what they are doing.

They’re never available unless you book them two to three months in advance [no exaggeration]. Viacom and HBO have them in lockdown.

2. Hire assistants who are skilled on the technical side to assist editors who might be valuable for their creative talents.

Assistants who want ONLY to be an editor, not a director or a DP or a movie star or a rock star, who are committed, willing to learn, with an understanding of client services, with talent worth committing to develop, who show up, who stay late, who aren’t drunks, who don’t move in 6 months, who will work for entry level wage, are hard to come by.

Not only that, if you factor in the cost of an editor AND an assistant on a job that the client has already squeezed you down to a mouse’s worth of profit, it just doesn’t make good business sense. Back in the day when you could get an $8000 creative fee, add in another $4000 for “assistant labor” [oohh, those EDL’s are sooo haaard to export], then a room rate, dubs, shipping, meals, and then [gasp] MARKUP, these staffing issues did not exist. As Poe would say, “…Nevermoooorrre.”

3. Bring in someone to train them.

A good proposition, but training takes a long, long, time, and should be done on the editor’s own nickel, not mine. If they are staff, that is one thing. Freelance – no way.

4. Knock done their pay.

Wish I could, but when you’ve been booking someone at the same rate for a couple years, and then now you tell them, “Sorry. You don’t know how to use the Control Panel. I’m bumping you down to $400/day.” They’ll never work for me again.

Hey, I’m just being a jaded ranter right now. I completely know you are right.

steve

[Joe Murray]

The great thing about desktop editing software is that it’s very accessible. The bad thing about desktop editing software is that it’s very accessible. Back in the day of linear suites, technical ability wasn’t an option…now it is. Now creativity trumps technical skills every time. I’ve met more than one editor that cuts national commercials in a top market who has no clue about how the editing system actually works, where the media is stored or how to solve common technical issues when they arise. “That’s what the engineer is there for.”

And even in smaller shops where there’s no fulltime engineer, editors can usually squeek by without having to be the kind of problem solver you’re looking for in your editors.

The other thing to consider is, can you pick up some help from a market that isn’t as busy as yours, where there might be some good ediors available at a lower rate to offset travel costs?

[Bob Zelin]

I LOVE your post – replies below.

You write –
there’s the former Avid editors who were so used to sitting down and working one way, where the video goes in, and it goes out, If something doesn’t work automatically, it’s a dead end. Can’t figure it out.

REPLY – these people will soon be unemployed. These were the Film Editors that would not learn CMX, and these were the CMX editors that would not learn AVID (AVID sucks !). You either keep learning until you die, or you go work for McDonnalds.

You write –
The other situation is the former DV director/editor and they screw up all the settings because they don’t know what their doing and the system ceases to work properly. And they don’t wanna know about Reference sync or proper mastering, legal colors, etc. Their projects are a gotdam mess with media all over the place with badly formatted drives, filled to gills, etc.

REPLY – hey, this is how I make my living, dealing with these people. I can’t yell at them in real life, so I yell at them on Creative Cow. These people are EVERYWHERE – no experience (and they don’t want the experience) – they just want to get the job done.
Where would I be without these people ?

YOU WRITE –
some of these editors are making from $500 to $1000 a day to do this work. Am I THAT cynical to think that MAYBE someone who gets paid that much ought to KNOW their damn systems inside out and backwards?

REPLY –
This is the classis “don’t tell me, I’ve been editing on AVID for 20 years, and I KNOW EVERYTHING. This FCP sucks. I don’t do graphics, I’m an editor. I don’t do audio, I’m an editor”. This person will be unemployed in 3-4 years, so don’t worry.

YOU WRITE –
The other side is, did Apple and AJA make a system that is just too good for the average editor to be able to use without practically having to have certification level training?

REPLY – Apple made it so that ANYONE could edit. And guess what – anyone is editing, and they have no clue. Apple succeeded in this. AJA and Blackmagic made hardware that ANYONE could afford – guess what – anyone, and everyone is going out and buying it. Everyone has an HD edit system. Does this mean they know how to do an HD edit ?
I know – LETS BLAME AJA – this is the AJA forum, after all !

YOU WRITE –
I will admit that some of my setups are less than ideal, such as using an AJA LH with an AJA IO for D/A of audio. This has baffled those who don’t understand that you have to change one of the SDI channels to downconvert to SD in order for it to work in HD. HEY! IT”S NOT THAT HARD! READ THE MANUAL!!!

REPLY – this is YOUR FAULT. In the “old days”, when facilities ruled the world, and people SPENT MONEY, you would have a big machine room, and there would be converters on EVERYTHING, so that if you were in an SDI plant – EVERYTHING, including the VHS machine would be SDI in and out of a router. NICE AND EASY (but it costs a fortune). Today, people don’t even want to buy a single patch bay, so you have inexperienced people crawling on the floor, hooking up VTR’s wrong, and saying “how come I can’t get this machine to work. The more money you are willing to spend, the easier it is to set up these systems. When you have a router panel assigned to EACH VTR (like the old National Video days in NY), any moron can assign a machine instantly.

REPLY –
there are many talented editors out there. There are many talented young people out there, that know more than the “experienced” AVID editors. You have to have the time to meet with them (and not hang up on them when they call for an interview), and give them a chance.
David Kuther (from the AVID lists) was a classis example of this – punk kid who had more ambition than 20 editors. One of the first people (within 3 months of being exposed to the NY TV market) to figure out how to get Adobe Graphics working with AVID products, when all the “experienced” editors said it couldn’t be done. Crew Cuts in NY excells in finding young talent, and develops that talent. Most NY houses (when I was there) would NEVER give anyone a chance, and all the old bags just faded away.

Bob Zelin

[Shane Ross]

When I was an Assistant Editor, I and my fellow assistants made fun of these guys. They NEVER got our respect…which is a bad thing. Sure, they are good storytellers. But if you can’t figure out how to tell the computer what drive to render to (thus filling up drives to BEYOND capacity) or know how to capture and output, then that good are they.

I vowed to not be that kind of editor….and I pride myself on my creative storytelling ability, and technical know how to build my own system and manage it. Those tired dinosaurs? They never had to be technical, always had assistants.

Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net

[Alan Okey]

[Bob Zelin] “REPLY – hey, this is how I make my living, dealing with these people. I can’t yell at them in real life, so I yell at them on Creative Cow. These people are EVERYWHERE – no experience (and they don’t want the experience) – they just want to get the job done.
Where would I be without these people ? “

Boy, you hit the nail on the head. I’ve found myself earning more money from consulting than I would ever have dreamed simply because there are so many techically clueless “experienced editors” out there. I’m amazed by how many people pay so little attention to the technical aspects of their craft. The excuse “hey man, I’m just an editor, not an IT guy” just doesn’t cut it. Other artists have to learn their craft – painters need to learn how to mix colors, use medium, etc. Metal sculptors need to learn how to set up a cutting torch, a MIG welder, etc. Why should editors be any different?

[Bob Zelin] “There are many talented young people out there, that know more than the “experienced” AVID editors. You have to have the time to meet with them (and not hang up on them when they call for an interview), and give them a chance. “

Another well-aimed dart of a comment. A few years ago, I applied for a job with a small local video company that shot and produced videos of equestrian events. The guy who ran it was interested in getting into nonlinear editing (he was still using linear gear), and I could have helped drag him (kicking and screaming) into the 21st century. He had no experience with Avid or Final Cut Pro, and no experience with DVD authoring. I could have brought a lot to his business, but he was too busy to get back to me. 5 years later, I’m getting $90/hour for freelance compositing and doing a fair amount of editing, finishing and DVD authoring, and he’s still shooting his little horse shows with SVHS gear. I can’t imagine that his clients are too thrilled with being offered a VHS tape as a deliverable these days… But of course he was an “old pro” who “knew better.”

It continually amazes me that despite all of the free, quality information that is available online these days, far too many people don’t have the curiosity or professionalism to learn more about their own craft and the tools they use on a daily basis.

[Christian Glawe]

Wow! Great post…

“I’m having a problem with numerous editors who either refuse to learn how to use the editing equipment, or are too intimidated to touch it.”

At first blush, I’d say “don’t hire them” – are you being thorough enough in your interviewing process to weed these people out?

“There are two colliding thoughts here that burn me up. One is that some of these editors are making from $500 to $1000 a day to do this work.”

Don’t worry… they won’t be for long.

“Emotionally, I want to cut the day rates of the editors who don’t know their chops on these systems, except most of them are actually AMAZINGLY good editors, when it comes down to the concept and execution.”

If these editors were willing to learn something new, and you were willing to be a little bit patient with them while they learned it, that could be a great situation for you. Personally, I would rather hire the great editor, who’s maybe a little short on particulars of a FCP/Kona system, than the guy who knows all the FCP setup menus, but can’t edit a lick. This, of course, presumes that the Great Editor is willing to learn something new… you should be able to determine this in an interview.

“Am I being to pretentious to think that the so-called power skills I have gone out of my way to acquire over the years are too much for the average pro editor to acquire as well?”

Too pretentious? No.. probably not. The rules of market economics will weed these people out – but it will take a few years for the new paradigm to become Established Convention.

Quick story: I had never worked on FCP before I moved to LA – I was Avid, and discreet edit before that. Once I knew I was moving out here, I did some research, and realized that there’s a big FCP market in LA. Well… guess I’d better get a Mac, get FCP, and start learning it! Now, easily 90% of my work is FCP, and I’m busy as can be…

I was willing to adapt to the realities of the marketplace – some people aren’t, primarily because it requires a time investment and hard work to properly learn new skills.

Your rant is completely understandable – I’d say A) interview more thoroughly – some people make prospective editors do a “hands on” test as part of the interview for the gig, and B) take the time to share your knowledge with those folks that are eager to learn… it might take some time, but it will ultimately pay off in spades as you cultivate your pool of talent.

[Steve Covello]

Thank you all for such a great response. Keep it coming.

After some thought, I am considering a new policy for the freelance rate based somewhat on the NYC going rate of, arguably, $650/day:

$400/day – “cuts and dissolves”, no setup skills, no effects, no compression, no mixing, no color correction, no DVD making, fulltime assistant required.

Add $50/day for each of the following:

– FCP/AJA setup skills
– AE, PSD, IL skills
– 3D graphics skills
– DVD and web compression skills
– Color Correction and mixing [includes prep/export of OMF]
– Online, mastering, legalizing and output to tape skills
– Perhaps a negotiable Creative Fee on a per day basis, if the talent is prized that much

I am ready to stop being a ‘slave to the talented creative genius at ANY expense’ regardless if skillset. There has to be a line drawn somewhere.

I believe that the tiered prices would create a clear delineation of skills/expectations, and an incentive for those motivated to improve. Same goes for, in my opinion, of graphic designer/animators who don’t know squat about video formats and send files not usable in the video domain.

Comments?

steve covello

[Oliver Peters]

I would tend to characterize myself as both creative and technical, so I often find myself at facilities working alongside other creative editors who aren’t very technical, especially with FCP. It’s obvious to me that quite a few have bluffed their way into the gig telling the facility owner/manager that they have FCP chops when they don’t. The reality is that they are trying to get up to speed. Actually working a gig is one of the best ways, though, I’m sure the owner doesn’t want to know that. I don’t mind giving them pointers to get them through if they ask. Generally the jobs get done in the booked amount of time, even if the project structure is a bit of a mess. After all, even in the linear days, how many good editors kept really messy EDLs?

The stronger facilities in the area have at least one junior person on staff who is a combination dubber/assistant editor/editor (on small jobs) and it is generally their job to make sure the freelance editor has everything patched correctly to the VTR room, has their FCP preferences right and has their scratch disks set to the location desired by the facility. That’s the only way to do it and they were doing this in the linear and the Avid days, too.

Sincerely,
Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com