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Raising 5.4M, Reading Rainbow wants a full-time FCPX editor for 25K/year
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[tony west] “I like to do math when it comes to my money.”
But where do you get your insurance and any disability? Would it be from whoever is paying you for that job, should something happen?
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[Tim Wilson] “they come under extra scrutiny”
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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[Jeremy Garchow] “But where do you get your insurance and any disability? Would it be from whoever is paying you for that job, should something happen?”
I bought my health insurance myself privately for most of my career. When the affordable care act came in I got into that. Fox offers a plan but it wasn’t as good as what I had.
We had a guy get hurt on the job a few years back and Fox kicked in.
We have a big Union town here in St. Louis and have great contracts. I got rid of disability insurance a while back.
Our union also pays for part of our hospital stay depending on how long you are in there.
We also have a pension plan that is like 40 bucks an events. That really adds up when you consider how many baseball games and hockey games and basket ball there are. Even commercial work.
The problem with that add was the part that said it was “non-union” : )
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Yes, we have the red-hot Cardinals going against Jeff’s Cubbies : ) They got us tonight.
[Bret Williams] “But comparing what one company will pay vs. what another will pay just determined that FOX paid better than ESPN.”
Actually they didn’t and still don’t. The day rate for ESPN was slightly higher than Fox back then, but the take home was less. (self-employment tax) Meaning at the end of the day you made less money.
It was like 5% vs 13% I think. Now, that 8% goes in my pocket.NBC and CBS both are W2 so I will work for them also.
I do have some 99’s enough for me to deduct my camera gear and stuff just like you. I just make sure that the bulk of my network gigs are W2
I get money back instead of paying quarters.
It’s cool though, if those 99’s are working for you have at it.
I just wanted to get my information out there to people who may not be so familiar with the topic.I am an officer in my union also and it comes up all the time with new members.
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Just wanted to make sure you knew that every time you see 7.5% taken out for FICA/Social Security that is your half. The employer pays the government the other half. It equals the exact same amount as social security/self employment tax. It doesn’t sound like you understand that. And of course they have to work that into their cost of doing business. If they were paying you $100/hr as an employee/W-2, they were also paying the government another $7.50 per hour.
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[tony west] “Our union also pays for part of our hospital stay depending on how long you are in there.
We also have a pension plan that is like 40 bucks an events. That really adds up when you consider how many baseball games and hockey games and basket ball there are. Even commercial work.
The problem with that add was the part that said it was “non-union” : )”
I see. I operate the way Brett does, so I was wondering how you did it. It sounds like there’s some security with the union. I am non union.
I guess I’d rather get the money that my clients agree to rather than have them take taxes out. I do have to set aside tax money, but it’s not a big deal. The other way to do it is to over pay estimated taxes, and then get a return, just like everyone else, but I tend to not do that, as like you, I like the money in my pocket for as long as possible! Also, during the course of the year, I will have many many “employers” and I think accounting wise, it is much easier for them to pay the bill as a contractor rather than pay me as an employee, but rarely do I go to work in other places with other’s equipment.
This has been a good discussion.
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[Bret Williams] “Just wanted to make sure you knew that every time you see 7.5% taken out for FICA/Social Security that is your half. The employer pays the government the other half. It equals the exact same amount as social security/self employment tax.”
I believe I understand it pretty well Bret, when they give you a 99 they are paying zero into your social security. YOU pay their half AND your half in that case. You are paying more in taxes that way.
In a W2 they ARE paying their half like you said. You seem to be saying that in a 99 they are paying your SS. Are you saying that? Why would they do that? You are not an employee You are “self”-employed at that point.
With a 99 they are saying that you are not an employee. They don’t owe you anything. No workman’s comp, no SS, nothing.
And if you drop something on somebody’s head, they can say “see Bret on that”
That’s why I carry liability insurance for the few 99 jobs I have.
It’s like if you hired somebody to build a deck on the back of your house. You wouldn’t pay that person’s SS, they are a contractor for that one job.
A 99 is OK if you work for a person once or twice a year, but when I was traveling across the country making ten’s of thousands of dollars for ESPN I was not a deck builder. I was an employee and should have been paid like one. They just didn’t want to pay people like that. It saved them cash. It’s illegal and came to an end now but they got away with it for years.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “It sounds like there’s some security with the union.”
There is, but what you really have is a fair wage. The union establishes a floor that people can’t go under.
You can get paid more than the wage (and we are all for that) but you can’t go under it.
Somebody can’t come in and say, I will do that job that Jeremy did for 5 bucks. We don’t have folks undercutting the rate here so everybody gets paid big. Everyone knows when they come into this town what the deal is.
[Jeremy Garchow] “I guess I’d rather get the money that my clients agree to rather than have them take taxes out. “
I get the money they agree to also in the contract, and I don’t have to worry about the taxes.
You can see my response above J, but we have to compare apples to apples. If you do one job for somebody for 1500.00 and you want to take a 99 that’s one thing, but would you really let somebody slide you a 99 on 30k worth of work? You are going to get killed in taxes like that.
I do most of my work for Networks. I want W2s from them. It’s different if I do a small job for a single producer.
The math has to be done on each case. After rereading your post Jeremy it sounds like you have done the math and it’s working for you. I’m glad it is working out for you both.
This is working out much better for me these days than before. I’m not having to come up with thousands of dollars each quarter and assuming responsibilities that belong to the employer.
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[Bret Williams] “If you decide you’d rather be an employee, the company isn’t going to be paying that same rate PLUS SS, medicare and health benefits. “
That actually happened at Viacom 8 or 9 years ago (exception that proves the rule?). They had legions of perma-lance employees (some people worked there 5 or 6 years as ‘temp’ employees) filling staff positions but not getting staff benefits and eventually there was an uprising. IIRC anyone that had been a temp employee working at least 9 out of the past 12 months could go choose to go staff at their current pay rate. Of course Viacom has since started laying staff off and replacing them with ‘temp’ employees again so it looks like the cycle is repeating itself.
But, back on topic, benefits aren’t a requirement. For example, temp employees don’t qualify for full time benefits which is one reason companies keep trying to plug temp employees or ICs to into full time, staff positions. Or companies only work people part time. I know a few people working for some large companies but only part time. They’ll basically either work 3 days a week and are eligible to work 12 months a year or they 5 days a week but only for 9 months out of the year to keep (this keeps total hours worked annually below the full time threshold). From what I hear the pay is good and the work is fun so some people stick around for years hoping one of the highly sought after full time slots becomes available.
[Bret Williams] “There have been some issues around here as I mentioned where companies have been forced to make sure their ICs go through an agency, especially if they want to treat them more like temp employees and just have them come in”
If they have to get their ICs through an employment agency it doesn’t sound like they are ICs. 😉
[Bret Williams] ” I’d say you’re a contractor even if you’re working on someone else’s NLE. If not, there are a huge number of fortune 500 companies in this town that are up the creek!”
What you or I think about the definition doesn’t ultimately matter though as the definitions are set by the IRS for tax purposes. I’m sure there are a lot companies, big and small, that are misclassifying people. FedEx, for example, has been taken to court over this but it’s a tough row to hoe against a company with deep pockets like that. Lyft and Uber originally tried to classify their drivers as contractors but got taken to court and lost (they obviously aren’t the size of FedEx but I remember reading about it recently). Not an employee/IC thing, but recently a number wage fixing incidents have come to light involving companies like Google, Apple, HP, Adobe, Lucas Film, eBay, Dreamworks, Disney, Pixar, etc.,. I don’t think we really hear much about it because the people affected either don’t realize what’s going on and/or they are afraid of speaking out because they might lose their job/get blackballed. Not to drag this out, but it seems like many of the companies that try and play with the rules are either so small they don’t think they can survive otherwise or so big they don’t think anyone is going to call them on it.
Now back to our regularly scheduled programing.
[Bret Williams] “I’m glad you did your diligence and decided which company was the better deal. But comparing what one company will pay vs. what another will pay just determined that FOX paid better than ESPN. Not that getting paid via 1099 vs. W-2 is worse. I worked at 3 salaried jobs before I went freelance. I get paid twice as much, have a ton more free time, can write off my computers, phone, a portion of my utilities, etc. Insurance cost money sure. As does self employment tax.”
I think a lot of the differences in perspective is based on the markets we work in and the types of work we usually take.
For example, full time staff gigs are pretty rare out here (Los Angeles) and if I do see one it’s usually a corporate gig working in-house some place. I’ve never been a salaried employee before though I have worked as a full time, hourly staff employee, as a temp/project based employee and as an IC. On the staff job the hourly rate was low, but that was indicative of the company and the budgets they worked with. The rate for freelancers (project based employees) was about the same as it was for the staff editors (sometimes a little higher, sometimes a little lower).
I left that staff gig a while ago and went back to freelancing. Being freelance certainly affords me the flexibility to find hire paying work than my staff gig, but for the type of work I normally do (documentaries and unscripted/reality TV) it certainly falls under the employee umbrella. I know my rate, and the range the gigs typically fall within, and maybe there’s some negotiating and maybe there’s not, but even if the production wanted to skirt the rules and go w/ an IC I don’t think the rate would change because the show’s budget is the show’s budget. They aren’t going to pay an IC 2x a much as a temp employee ’cause the temp, unlike a full time staff employee, doesn’t incur a ton of overhead.
I know editors that incorporated and then loan themselves out to productions, but some production companies won’t do that because they want everyone on payroll (I assume for accounting reasons). So with that approach you have to make sure you get enough ‘loan out’ work that it justifies the cost and hassle of incorporating.
FWIW, temp employees can write work related things off too though not as broad a range as ICs.
EDIT: I remember I have worked as a salaried employee before. It was a long time ago and only for a few months (hired in Sept, whole video department laid off in December). Looking back at that now though, I definitely was misclassified as exempt when I should have been non-exempt.
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[tony west] “Somebody can’t come in and say, I will do that job that Jeremy did for 5 bucks.”
If they can get the job done for 5 bucks, they can have it!!! 🙂
[tony west] “You can see my response above J, but we have to compare apples to apples. If you do one job for somebody for 1500.00 and you want to take a 99 that’s one thing, but would you really let somebody slide you a 99 on 30k worth of work? You are going to get killed in taxes like that.
“I read your earlier response, and it does make sense. I think we have different job styles. I may be working for 5 – 10 clients concurrently, and while they are jobs, I am definitely more like a contractor. Some of our clients have ongoing work, but most call us when they have a specific project, so it’s best for us to run things like I do. Yes, I have to be mindful of taxes, but all that takes is careful preparation, which means leaving some aside for Unkie Sam when the checks finally come in (Net 30, is a long gone distant memory. As easy and fast as technology makes it to transfer money to someone, companies are holding on to cash for as long as they absolutely can, and it can be tough to string together a bunch of expensive jobs and then waiting to recoup those costs).
And yes, I have a great tax person.
I don’t know anyone in our freelance pool that uses W2, they are all 99, and usually are all incorporated. I’m not saying you are wrong, not in the least bit. I like hearing about it as it’s something that I have never come across, but then again, most of our clients aren’t our employers, and all our freelancers aren’t our employees.
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