RAID set up advise please

[Warren Eig]

I would look at the ATTO R380 card instead of the Highpoint RocketRAID. You will have less to no problems with the ATTO card. I have the Areca 1680x but there are some issues with MultiCam editing with it.

Run the RAID as a RAID 5 with the 8 bay box (with 1TB drives you get about 6TB of workable drive space– add 1.5TB drives for more). I have Seagates in my RIAD and have no problems. Hitachi are also good drives. Remember to buy an extra to have around in the event one of the drives in the RAID 5 fails.

I have the 16 bay version from Enhance Technologies, I think they make the Proavio. The advantage of the 16 bay besides more storage is it is rack-mountable. Also anything over 10 drives should be RAIDED as a RAID 6.

HTH,

Warren

Warren Eig
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[David Roth weiss]

Let me reiterate in even stronger terms what Warren said about RocketRaid. There are very few users of the RocketRaid cards on this forum who have not encountered monumental issues. Basically most people here will agree with me when I tell you that they are simply not worth even trying. Search for Bob Zellin’s posts on the subject and you will see several rants and tirades from him on the subject. If I am correct, I believe Bob most recently referred to RocketRaid cards as “crap.” So, you go that direction at your own peril…

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

A forum host of Creative COW’s Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.

[John Davidson]

I have this setup.
ProAvio 8MS with mini-sas,
8 1TB Western Diginal Caviar Black Drives,
and the Highpoint Rocketraid 4322 (mini-sas).

I built the system about a month or so ago. Initially I had purchased Western Digital’s Enterprise class 2Tb drives, but those drives use this ‘intellipower’ feature which cause just enough lag to screw up HDCam layback, so I returned them for the 7200 RPM Caviar Black drives. That said, just yesterday Hitachi claimed to be shipping 2Tb drives and, if so, that’s pretty tight. I would still rather see benchmarks on these drives and let them ‘go out into the wild’ for a bit before I purchased them. After buying bleeding edge drives twice now, I’ve learned my lesson.

Regarding the comments to Highpoint, i’ve only used their cards for the last 4 years – so I have no other product knowledge to compare it to. I have never had a drive or RAID die on me using highpoint products. I have, however, run into situations where a card I had was no longer compatible with my OS (moving from Tiger to Leopard required a new controller card – Highpoint wouldn’t release drives for Leopard with my older card – that ticked me off). I did, however, run 4 400 gig hitachi drives in RAID 0 from 2004-present (the raid still works, I gave it to an employee).

With the 1Tb drives, the 4322 performs well. I run in raid 5 and my aja system test is routinely around 600 write and 500 read. There are little spikes and dips in the graph, but it’s fairly consistent throughout. For approximately 2k, I’m extremely please with this system that I built myself.

Mounting the drives is a fairly standard procedure. The Highpoint rocketraid interface sucks. The instructions are vague and you have to experiment with building it correctly.
For help on the navigating the interface, google this:
“super fast 4Tb raid for under 1500”

I will say I much prefer the mini-sas vs esata. It’s 2 cables vs 8 really short cables. If you can go the min-sas route, I say go for it. Highpoint’s customer service and support is non-existent. I would have purchased a CalDigit card, which everybody says are the best, but they get in a tizzy if you use somebody elses drives and enclosures, so I gave my business to Highpoint. David’s advice about the ATTO is probably dead-on, I have no knowledge of it, but I can tell you that it’s not the hardest thing in the world to build your own RAID these days. I saved some money and learned how to build a RAID array. That knowledge is invaluable.

Good luck!
John

[Tom Brooks]

That’s funny because I’ve been using a Highpoint card with good success. You have to do it right however. I started with the enclosure. The company had good info and even a good guy to talk to in person. They had a list of approved controller cards and approved drives, down to the exact model and firmware. I followed the list to the letter and have had no problems. Completely self-assembled and I’m a dummy in terms of nitty gritty computer hardware stuff. It was easy and apparently pretty foolproof.

The only problem I have experienced is directory corruption that happened once when I shut down the RAID before the system had shut down. I was able to fix it easily with Disk Warrior. I’m not sure if the RocketRAID is more prone to that problem than Areca or anyone else. I’ve gone through several software updates, including the jump from Tiger to Leopard with no compatibility troubles with the RAID.

My card is the 2322, which is not “true hardware” RAID. In other words, the card does not handle all of the allocation of data to the RAID by itself. It does increase load on the computer CPU somewhat, but it does not seem significant to me. I get speeds around 500MB/Sec with RAID 5.

I saved maybe five hundred dollars on this card vs. the Areca.

So, in my opinion, it’s tough to rate the RocketRAID as total crap. But there are some major negatives.
1. There’s very little support available from Highpoint. When I had the directory problem I got no response from them. I was pointed to Disk Warrior through a search on Creative Cow (as usual, and thanks very much).

2. The 2000 series RocketRAID cards do not handle all RAID function in their own hardware. But, as I stated, the extra CPU load is not a killer. The newer 3000 series RocketRAID cards are fully hardware controlled.

After all that defense, I still have to honestly say that I would not recommend the RocketRAID cards unless you yourself are an expert in their use. It’s just too risky to be on your own with stuff you know nothing about. I doubt that Adaptec (no it’s ATTO) or Areca are much better with direct support to consumers however. A good reseller might be able to support you with those cards. I would take a real hard look at the CalDigit RAID card. I believe it’s limited to SATA only, not SAS drives. But I like the support vibe I get from that company. My RAID is listed in my sig.

Final Cut Pro 6.0.5, Mac OS-X 10.5.6, Quicktime 7.6, Adobe Prod Prem CS4, G5 Quad 2.5, Kona-LHe V6, 8.5GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce 7800-GT 256MB, G-RAID 2x1TB FW800, 6TB RAID-5 (Enhance E8-ML, Highpoint 2322), Panasonic HVX-200P P2. Also MBP 17″ Core 2 Duo 2.5, 4GB, GeForce 8600M GT 512MB.

[Tom Brooks]

Hey John,
I wish that blog had been there when I built mine. I had to fret and study and call people to get confident enough to buy and build the RAID. That blog would have made it all much clearer and easier. Mine’s almost identical to the setup in the article. Also, CalDigit’s card came out just about a month or two AFTER I needed this RAID up and running. I also got a note from Jon pointing out the fact that the RocketRAID card is a software card. My enclosure was from Enhance Technologies, I believe, but I think it’s the same box. Very nice quality and very quiet. It’s black and doesn’t have the big ProAVIO graphic on the side. I guess if the ProAVIO folks do not recommend the CalDigit card, I’d go with the ATTO or Areca. I’ve heard of heat problems with the ATTO, so probably the Areca.
– tom

Final Cut Pro 6.0.5, Mac OS-X 10.5.6, Quicktime 7.6, Adobe Prod Prem CS4, G5 Quad 2.5, Kona-LHe V6, 8.5GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce 7800-GT 256MB, G-RAID 2x1TB FW800, 6TB RAID-5 (Enhance E8-ML, Highpoint 2322), Panasonic HVX-200P P2. Also MBP 17″ Core 2 Duo 2.5, 4GB, GeForce 8600M GT 512MB.

[Arnie Schlissel]

[Tom Brooks] “I doubt that Adaptec (no it’s ATTO) or Areca are much better with direct support to consumers however.”

Actually, Atto’s customer support is fantastic. It’s up on the same level as Aja’s support. That, plus the fact that the products actually work and deliver what they promise is worth the extra cost of the card.

My own experience with High Point is enough for me to never buy one again. It’s crap.

Arnie
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[John Davidson]

Yeah, when I stumbled across that blog is really laid it out simply and didn’t scare the bejesus out of me. Kudos for you doing that on your own – you’re braver than me!

I’m really happy with this RAID though, it’s super-quiet compared to my old RAID and as long as you remember to power down the computer before shutting off the RAID, it’s pretty simple.

I do wish Highpoint would make a RAID management app or something a little better than that craptacular, difficult to understand web page management format. Oh, and responding to support email requests, but, I know that’s alot to ask. They can’t all be AJA….can they?

[David Roth weiss]

Hey John,

I’m sorry I quoted Zellin calling your raid card crap. I know hearing that from him must really hurt. I did say that “few here” with RocketRaid card have not had monumental issues, and you just happen to be one that rather small small group. Meanwhile, I’m glad you were successful in making yours work.

All the best,
David

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

A forum host of Creative COW’s Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.

[John Davidson]

Lol, part of why I bought it was what he said in this thread, actually:

https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/197/855667#855669

-the part about “I’m hearing it’s terrific”, coupled with the fact that I already had a base knowledge of Highpoint’s interface (awful though it is) was what prompted me to buy it.

I really would have bought from CalDigit, but if I have to fake, lie, or follow an unorthodox path to use my own drives, well, no thanks.

Believe you me, if this card dies, I will make sure everybody knows about it!

Have a nice Sunday, sir!
j

[Alan Okey]

I know my opinion is in the minitory here, but I would strongly suggest that you consider purchasing an integrated RAID solution from a reputable vendor like CalDigit, Dulce Systems, etc. instead of building your own RAID.

If cost is critical, then so be it, but there’s a lot to be said for purchasing a complete, custom-integrated solution instead of rolling your own. A major benefit to buying form a RAID vendor is that if you should encounter problems, you then only have one support contact to deal with in order to fix the problem. Yes, you pay extra for that level of support, but if trouble-free reliable storage is your goal, then consider buying from a professional RAID vendor.