QUESTIONS FOR FLYING COW USERS

[Bob Zelin]

I am not really following your question, but if you have a FREE RUNNING analog source (like an audio cassette), and pass it thru a Flying Cow to become an AES signal, the Cow will not put it into sync. If you have a Beta VTR, the Beta VTR must be locked to a black reference (as well as the AJA product). The Cow will convert the Beta VTR audio to AES, but it will only stay in sync, based on the color black genlock reference source, not the Flying Cow.

If this answer is not adequate, please state your exact analog source, and what you are trying to do.

Bob Zelin

[David Battistella]

Jim,

I assume you are talking about an avid sytle slave lock that is an otboard box that slaves picture to audio. The clocking is all done by the Mac in Core audio and the driver. You could theoretically slave lock the mac to a nansync via the spdif port if you wanted a house reference time signla, but the AV clocking is done in core audio by the OS.

So the FLyig cow, being an outboard Device, does not need to lock to some master once that signal goes to the KONA it is locked to the internal clockin gof the MAC. Many people here have captured two hour clips and they are right in sync.

David

[Jim Blokland]

Hi Bob & David:

Thanks for your kind responses. Yes, the primary scenario for me is digitizing from BetaSP via an AJA D10A component convertor, and some kind of A/D convertor (and also outputting back to an analog recorder from the Kona 2). Particularly, I’ve been toying with the idea of using a ProTools 888 24-bit I/O as a standalone A/D D/A convertor, to get my analog sources into the Kona 2 via AES on the K-Box.

My concern is, without a word-clock signal into the ProTools 888, would the audio stay in sync? Based on what you both said, it sounds like as long as the BetaSP deck has genlock, that I wouldn’t have to worry. Is this right?

Sorry to belabour the point — just want to know before I purchase the 888.

Best, JIM.

OSX.4.1
Dual 2.7 G5
3.5 GB RAM
Radeon X800 XT
Kona 2 / K-Box

[David Battistella]

I use a SPECTRAL digital audio converter witht he K-Box. Even though it is 16 bit it is a very high quality ad/da converter (yes I know the flying cow is 24bit, but it’s the cheapest 24bit converter on the market, anyone looked inside one of those?)

I certainly can not reccomend a purchase here but I can tell you that I use the AJA I/O la to get the analog into my edit station, then I monitor and edit all of that throught the KONA 2. at 1000 bucks it takes care of analog audio and video I/O. I went this way instead of buying a one way 700 dollar stand alone component to SDI converter.

You may want to think about tis before ivesting in an older 888 audio converter and a stand alone converter. I can not guarentee that it will work and I have not heard of anyone going this route. I am not even sure that it will guarentee sync (which is not a problem with FCP and the KONA 2 anyway.

I can only give you let you in on what I did and hopefully that can help you make good choices for you.

David

[Bob Zelin]

Jim –
I do not know what you are talking about. If you take your Beta VTR, when you genlock it to a color black generator (and lock your Kona 2 or AJA I/O to the SAME color black generator – you DO own one, right ?????) – your audio will be in sync. You simply take your analog audio from the Beta VTR, stick it into the Flying Cow to turn it into AES/EBU, and it will be in sync. You can also use the new AJA HD10AMA to embed the analog audio into the SDI stream.

The Digidesign 888 Audio Interface box CANNOT be used as a standalone converter. It is used in conjunction with a Pro Tools Core card, or an AVID Amadeus interface card with the Media Composer Application. It will NEVER allow you to use it as a stand alone converter. I don’t know where you got the impression that you could do this. In a video enviornment, we use NTSC color black to keep things in sync, not word clock. Even with the Digidesign 888 Audio Interface, the way AVID used it was to use the Digidesign Video Slave Driver. You would send COLOR BLACK into the Video Slave Driver, and this would create the superclock that would go into the 888 box. Even if you had no video editing system, and just wanted to use the 888 to lock to video sync, you would use the Digidesign Universal Slave Driver to LOCK TO HOUSE BLACK, and then take the superclock output to go into the 888. YOU DONT BUY A WORD CLOCK GENERATOR. The Digi Universal Slave Driver (just for the record) has been replaced with the Digidesign Sync I/O, and the 888 has also been replaced by the 192HD interface.

Bottom line – just make sure you own a black generator, and get your little Flying Cow box, and away you go. This whole thing would be much easier if you simply purchased an AJA I/O LA – then you could forget about all these external converters.

Bob Zelin

[David Battistella]

Jim,

The only thinkg I will add to Bob’s post is that if you buy the i?o la you solve all of the problems except the one of high quality analog monitoring out of the KONA 2 card becasue teh only analog out of the K-box are a couple of rca connectors. I use a spectral to convert the AES audio to analog for high qulality monitoring. Many people use the flying cow box.

David

[Jim Blokland]

Hi again, Bob & David:

Thanks for the thoughtful responses. I appreciate it. First off…

Yes, I do have a Sigma black generator (I took your advice awhile back, Bob!), and I do plan to feed the VTR, the Kona 2 and the A/D convertor, if needed. Regarding the 888 interface, everywhere I’ve researched states that the 888 box can be used as a standalone convertor. But it does need a Superclock signal that comes from the Universal Slave Driver box (where the USD is fed with house sych from a generator). In other words, the USD locks to the house sync and then generates superclock that the 888 I/O locks to, keeping everything in sync.

The reason I’m interested in this combo is twofold — one, the 888 boxes/USDs are very inexpensive on eBay right now, and two, I’d have 8-IN and 8-OUT, full 24-bit conversion to/from AES, which would come in handy for any more advance sound work I might like to handle…I could even output full surround mixes!

I know it’s unorthodox, and a bit of a work-around, but I just wonder if it might do the job.

Thanks again for your help/advice.

Best, JIM.

OSX.4.1
Dual 2.7 G5
3.5 GB RAM
Radeon X800 XT
Kona 2 / K-Box

[Bob Zelin]

Jim says –
Regarding the 888 interface, everywhere I’ve researched states that the 888 box can be used as a standalone convertor.

REPLY
Your research is incorrect. The 888 CANNOT be used as a stand alone converter. If you can show me that I am wrong, I will contribute $40 in your name to any Hurricane Katrina charity that you want – just prove me wrong with any website stating this information, or a phone # of someone who told you this. I don’t care if someone pays you $1000 to take the Universal Slave Driver AND 888 box off their hands – you aint’ gonna use it as a stand alone converter.

Bob Zelin

[Jim Blokland]

Well Bob, here it is from the digidesign website: (https://www.digidesign.com/products/mix/systems/interfaces.cfm) The last line, in particular says it all…

“The 888|24 I/O is designed for uncompromising performance when recording, editing, signal processing, and mixing. Along with eight analog inputs equipped with excellent, 24-bit A/D converters, each output channel also offers a 24-bit D/A converter for precise monitoring applications. The 888|24 I/O also includes eight channels of digital I/O for sample-accurate, 24-bit transfers from digital tape or digital mixing consoles. If you have an expanded Pro Tools system (Pro Tools|24 MIXplus or MIX3), you can combine multiple 888|24 I/O units for up to 72 (software-dependent) channels of discrete analog or digital I/O. The 888|24 I/O can also be used as a stand-alone A/D or D/A converter.”

And the USD is also capable of functioning as a stand-alone box.

So I guess this is good news for Katrina survivors. You pick the charity.

Best, JIM.

OSX.4.1
Dual 2.7 G5
3.5 GB RAM
Radeon X800 XT
Kona 2 / K-Box

[Bob Zelin]

The good news is that Jim Blokland is about to make a donation to
https://www.americanhumane.org/site/PageServer?pagename=pa_disaster_relief
which I will take care of (Bob Zelin) – which is my favorite charity, and worthy of more than my donation for this issue.

The bad news is that, although I see the very quote on the Digidesign website that the 888/24 can be used as a stand alone converter, I assure you that this is incorrect information. Today is labor day 9/5/05, and I cannot confirm with Digidesign this misprint on their website today, but I will do so tomorrow. If I am wrong, I will double the donation.

Bob Zelin
ps – as you state the Universal Slave DriverIS a standalone unit. This was never in question.