Question regarding 10bit and DV in the same timeline

[Jerry Hofmann]

I don’t think so. When you put the uncompressed files into the DV sequence, you in effect converted them to DV… However if you do as you suggest, you could simply do a match frame and replace edit for each of the Uncompressed clips… (will be very fast in fact this way, you’ll not lose anything but filters) thus assigning the browser clips to remain 10 bit uncompressed.

Jerry

[John Pale]

Keep in mind that the frame size for DV and 10 bit UC is different for NTSC. This may cause a field order error in the DV material you paste into a 10 bit UC sequence. I can’t remember if FCP will automatically fix this for you by shifting the DV material by 1 line. Do a test and see (check the motion tab to see if the center changes). If FCP does not automatically fix this you will need to manually shift each DV clip 1 line to avoid image degradation.

[David Roth weiss]

Yikes!!! Guess I should have gone the other direction from the get go. What a big pain in the butt I have created for myself. Nothing like making a false assumption to kill a few days.

Thanks Jerry. I wish the news you had for me was better, but, its my fault…

[David Roth weiss]

Thanks John. I’ll check it out and certainly hope FCP does this without intervention.

DRW

[Jeremy Garchow]

So you are saying that you have digitized in 10 bit and DV? The 10 bit stuff should copy in unrendered (but you will have to break the relationship between the 10 bit files and the rendered dv files that are in your render folder) but the point about the frame order is right on. You will need to manually move each 10 bit clip up one pixel to correct it, then move each dv clip down a pixel to correct those (if FCP hasn’t done it for you). I would suggest media managing the timeline and digitize everything 10 bit. Much cleaner, more organized, and perhaps faster depending on the length of your timeline.

Jeremy

[Dndobson]

You can select all in your DV sequence, copy, then paste it in the 10bit sequence. Then re-render. Ive never noticed a field problem in FCP5 where DV 480lines footage is playing back in a NTSC (486lines) sequence.

If you nest the DV sequence in the 10bit sequence, all the 10bit footage will be re-rendered, so nesting would be a bad idea.

[Chris Borjis]

Yeah I’ve worked with DV 480 and Digibeta 486 (though not mixed) and never had to do any kind of image shifting. That would suck because you’d have to render the entire timeline wouldn’t you?

When it comes to that kind of thing (mixing dv with digibeta or betasp) I just capture my dv from component as 10-bit even though it isn’t. In my pipeline here at work, I much prefer 10-bit at all times to avoid any strange issues. Of course, it would be much more difficult to do if I didn’t have 1.2 TB of storage at my disposal.

[Tony]

David,

I would use media manager instead and take the old clips dv clips offline thereby breaking the links.

Recapture the DV clips but uprez on the fly to uncompressed (assuming you have a vtr and capture card to do this).

Tony Salgado

PS- in the future I would capturing all the footage at uncompressed then use media manager to transcode the project to dv for offline editing then when done with the offline reconnect to the uncompressed clips for the online.

I use this workflow and it saves having to capture twice. If space is a concern store the uncompressed clips offline on external firewire drives until you need them.

[Martin Baker]

Moving a clip up or down 1 pixel in the Motion Tab is not actually changing the field order. It is compensating for the dropping of a 480 line DV clip into a 486 line uncompressed sequence which is a different issue.

NTSC DV and NTSC uncompressed share the same Lower field order but if you were to position an NTSC DV clip at 0,0 within an NTSC uncompressed sequence then the images would go noticeably softer. This happens because there would be 3 lines of gap at the top and bottom of the sequence and because 3 lines is an odd number, all the rows of Field 1 pixels from the DV clip are now aligned with Field 2 pixels on the sequence. This results in a softening of the image because FCP is having to interpolate what the likely value of every pixel is rather than use the true original values.

However, if the DV clip is moved down by 1 pixel, the 2 fields on the DV clip now line up exactly with the 2 fields on the sequence because we now have a 4 line gap at the top of the DV clip and 2 line gap at the bottom.

If you edit (or paste) an NTSC DV clip into an NTSC uncompressed sequence (and the clip has a static position of 0,0) then FCP will automatically change the positon to 0,1 thus keeping the DV clip sharp.

Martin
Digital Heaven, London UK
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[Jerry Hofmann]

Ya live and learn every day or I figure you’re dead.

Might do as I’ve suggested but make the DV clips offline, mm the sequence and recapture the DV as 10 bit… If your running 5.1.1, even speed changes are being Media Managed accurately I hear.

Jerry