Question of ethics

[Bob Zelin]

you should look for another job. Your employer is “screwing you”, and you are going to get back at him, by “screwing him”. You are still underpaid. How about finding another job ? Ultimately your employer will find a kid he can pay less than you, and fire you anyway. Are you too busy with your bowling league, and softball games to look for another job ?

Bob Zelin

[David Roth weiss]

Only you can judge the level of expectation that you’ve established with your client, we can’t possibly know what that is. Just keep in mind, your reputation and your own self-esteem hang in the balance, so you must always take both factors into consideration when determining your course of action in matters like these. As long as you always deliver more than you promise, you will be just fine.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

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A forum host of Creative COW’s Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.

[Denise Quesnel]

Hi Aaron

I don’t think this as simple an answer as many may think it to be. You should ask yourself if the effort you decide to put into the project is reflective of how you feel, or due to actual business practice.

With every project we have to measure how much our time is worth, because time spent on a project is potential time marketing ourselves and getting more paid work. If you are currently allowing the time you are spending on an underpaid gig to take away from time you would otherwise spend on gigs that pay the bills (or marketing your company) then this isn’t an issue of ethics as much as it is in running a business appropriately.

However if you are not allowing the underpaid project to take away time from other work/potential work/sleep then there is possibly no reason to readjust the effort put into the work in conjunction with pay.

Does the client know that you are taking a pay cut on this?

In this kind of situation what I would suggest is to look out for your business first, and notify the client that in fact you would typically charge xxx$$$ for this project and you are taking a pay cut. In order to continue running your business and pay bills, you will have to take this project on as more of a ‘side’ project on weeknights/weekends etc. Make them understand that it will take longer to complete their work.

As a general rule:
1. Good + Fast = Expensive
2. Good + Cheap = Slow
3. Fast + Cheap = Inferior

This article at FreelanceSwitch details the above options and how to explain pricing to clients.
https://freelanceswitch.com/money/fast-good-cheap-pricing-freelance-work/

If the client says “I don’t understand why it will take longer to complete my project- why, that isn’t fair at all!” Then you need to explain to them that you are running a BUSINESS, and that means you have bills etc to pay. SO you will need to take longer on their work so you can juggle other paid work at the same time.

Also as a general rule, no matter how the pay is for a job I want to work on, I will never sacrifice quality.

“Should I work as hard and as fast as I can at a job in which I am woefully underpaid? Or, should I work at a speed appropriot for what I’m getting paid? I’m a video editor/video production specialist.”

[Mark Suszko]

Very well put, Denise.

My 2 zlotys (left after buying Pazcky today):

Whatever you are working on, you should give it your best and work as fast and hard as is practical and sustainable. The reasons are, as have been mentioned before, that if you finish early, you free yourself up to go do something else productive, inside your trade or outside of it. If nothing else, take the free time to go out away from the office and get your head straight. Go play with your kids, your dog, go run along the beach, paint something… whatever, remind yourself about what is truly important and what is a means to an end.

Additionally, others watching you and your work at the shop are never going to take into account the conditions under which you did the job. They will only look at the work and judge you by it. By leaving nothing but good examples of your work behind, you add justification for a raise or retention of your job, you also make yourself more attractive to others who may see your effort and hire you. I figure: “if that guy is that good, working under weak conditions, how much better can he get in GOOD conditions?”

To keep your own sense of dignity, your ego, and self-respect, you should always give the job your best, regardless of your feelings for the boss. In fact, I’m often at my best when I’m p.o.’d about something and channel my anger into creative energy, as a way to throw my excellence back in someone’s face. Some people smash things up when raging: my theraputic expression is to create something, in a way nobody else can.

I’ve said this next part often: if you’re getting the money you agreed to get, the fact you are under or overpaid is nobody’s business, its all on you. Want more? Feel you deserve it? Can you prove it? Do they have it to give? Then go ask for it. If the conditions are poor, negotiate for better ones. Nobody but your momma is going to give you free bonuses without you taking some initiative to take what’s owed you.

One of the first rules in negotiation is: you have to be willing to walk away from the unacceptable deal, and THEY have to know that you can. Or you will never win. So if you really can’t stand the place another second, start working on your own exit strategy. Develop new skills on your own time. Network and build new leads, new directions. Give yourself options so that if you want to negotiate with them, you WILL have the power to take it or leave it.
Best of luck to you.

[Chris Blair]

We do work for a monastery near us. The monks there have a saying:

“We seek the extraordinary through the ordinary work of our everyday lives.”

What they’re saying is that the guy assigned to scrub the toilets takes as much pride and care in doing his job as the guy who’s running the entire show. It’s a “team” approach taken to it’s extreme.

It must work. Monasteries have been around since the Crusades and this particular monastery has been there for 150 years and is more vibrant and financially sound than it’s ever been. This…despite all the bad PR and troubles of the Catholic church over the last decade.

What I’m saying is, pay shouldn’t matter when it comes to the quality and speed of the work you do for your employer or your clients. I’ve had employees like you in the past. I hate them. Yes…strong words…but a fact. If you have that attitude about your current job, you’re going to find reasons to not do your best at any job you work. I’ve been in this business 25 years and a facility owner for 13 and I’ve seen it over and over.

Jobs are NOT designed to bring you fulfillment and self-worth. They’re designed to pay your bills. Should you find one that brings you the other two, you’re damn lucky. I own the company and I’m not particularly fond of 50% of the stuff I do. It doesn’t make me do it slower, or at any lower quality. My reputation is attached to EVERY single thing I do. It’s attached to every single thing my employees do. They screw up. I look bad…not them. MY money is tied up in this business. If it fails, I lose my job, probably my house, my credit and years of hard fought goodwill.

Your employer may very well be a crappy, uncaring boss, but he’s taking risks you’re not. You can leave without repurcussions at any time. He or she cannot.

I don’t mean to sound harsh. But the best employees we have are those that are positive, upbeat, have a good sense of humor and don’t constantly question every motive and course of direction they’re given. Very few owners and bosses assign work to people with any ill intention, and most I know understand that they have to pay good employees well to retain them. Maybe your boss doesn’t want to retain you?

Again…I don’t know you so I hope I don’t sound too harsh. But a business owner has enough to worry about, especially in these times, without having to worry over the grumblings of someone who thinks they’re being taken advantage of. Heck…maybe you are being taken advantage of, but learn from it. Don’t do it to other people when you get in a better situation. Learn to NOT manage the way this person manages.

In the meantime, look for a new job.

Chris Blair
Magnetic Image, Inc.
Evansville, IN
http://www.videomi.com

[Steve Wargo]

If you sign on to do a job at “X” dollars, you have signed on to do your best work at that price. Unless, when you were hired, your new employer said “So, Aaron. I can only pay you half of what your worth so please feel free to give it 50%. Sleeping is OK, as are flip flops and beach shorts”.

I suggest that you need to take the question you asked us, to the person who is responsible for your paycheck.

By the way, I originally wrote three long paragraphs that I decided to delete.

Biting my tongue (fingers)
Biting my tongue (fingers)
Biting my tongue (fingers)

Good God. I feel like Bob Zelin.

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It’s a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .

[Zane Barker]

[Aaron Cadieux] “Question of ethics”

If you have to ask then chances are its not ok.

Aaron, also please remember that this is a public forum and that is is vary possible that your employer may come across your post here and use it as ammunition to fire you and hire somebody else.

Work hard, make your self look good, build a great portfolio, and find a better paying job.

If I had an employee that was putting in half the effort because he felt that he was only getting payed half of what he should, that would tell me that the employee is definitely NOT worth what he thinks he is worth.

There are no “technical solutions” to your “artistic problems”.
Don’t let technology get in the way of your creativity!

[Bruce Bennett]

I agree with Steve on this.

When I worked for a post house for 8-years, we had a couple of employees who came from a local TV station. We paid them more money than they were making at the station, but they still would come to me (versus the owner) and complain that they weren’t making the amount of money they felt that they were worth, or deserved. They also didn’t like the fact that I was making more money than they did. (My title was Sales Manager. I was paid a very low base salary, made additional commissions on new client sales, and also wrote, directed and produced projects). I told them, if you want to make the money that I make, we can also lower your salary to equal my base salary, pay you commissions on new client sales, and you can also still edit, dub, etc. That would give them the opportunity to make more money based on their performances. They decided to keep their non-commissioned based salaries and predictable paychecks.

When I worked for a corporation as a Project Manager/Producer, we had lots of print graphic artists who always complained that they were underpaid compared to the manager level Project Managers that they reported to. The graphic artists felt they “did all the work” and the project managers had it easy since they didn’t do the actual layouts and design. I suggested that apply for management level positions and then they could get paid more (along with the new duties of countless meetings, performing employee reviews, resolving in-house customer complaints, be accountable when campaigns did not produce the ROI, and be accountable on keeping within budgets). Again, most of them decided to keep their “less responsible” jobs and “lower paid” salaries.

Typically, the people within a company that “create the work” do not get paid as much as managers. Managers take on more risk of losing their jobs. When an upper level manager or officer of the company gets pissed off because a campaign went over budget, didn’t work like predicted, and feels that it was a huge waste of money, usually the department head and/or Project Manager is the one who catches Hell and gets fired – not the graphic artists. They typically get to report to their new manager who takes over for the fired manager.

Bruce

Bruce Bennett
Bennett Marketing & Media Production, LLC

[Aaron Cadieux]

I sense a little hostility from you. You address me as if you know me personally. I am always looking for employment elsewhere, but in case you haven’t noticed, it’s not exactly a booming economy. The company is very small and I know how much business comes in and out of this place, and how much effort my employers but into the business (which isn’t much). It’s hard to put effort into something when the hire-ups are playing video games on their computers in the next room.

[Aaron Cadieux]

Thanks Mark,

I guess I should have explained better, but I was speaking in regards to my full-time job. I have been working at this company for 3+ years and only recently got my first raise. It was a sizeable raise, but, as far as I’m concerned, I am still underpaid. I am making $35,000 a year salary. I am their video editor, shooter and computer IT guy rolled into one. We don’t have much business coming in, so I know more money isn’t really an option, but at the same time, I feel it’s unfair to me to give them $50 or $60,000 dollars worth of work for $35,000. I am always looking for employment elsewhere, but it’s hard these days.