-
Question about Vegas – AE Workflow
I’ve done some research, checked the forums here and also did some testing and I think I’ve boiled it down to this question.
I’ve read J.R.’s comments about using Cineform, which is a strong candidate on my list for exporting files from Vegas 10 to After Effects.
However, I also read about creating Sony MXF files, which look great and import into AE, as well as Mainconcept MPEG-2 mts files.
The source files I am working with are AVCHD mts files from a Sony HR CX550v, (1920×1080, 29.97, 24Mbs)
In both cases I changed the settings to HD 1920×1080 and like I mentioned, the files look great, but is this lossless and a recommended way to go (either MXF or Mainconcept), or is Cineform still a better choice?
Thanks!
-
9 Replies
-
[Ed Law] “In both cases I changed the settings to HD 1920×1080 and like I mentioned, the files look great, but is this lossless and a recommended way to go (either MXF or Mainconcept), or is Cineform still a better choice?”
Both Sony MXF and MainConcept MPEG2 are lossy formats. In addition, both use Interframe compression. This means that only 1 in 15 frames is a “real” frame (the I-Frame). The rest are deltas that must be constructed by adding multiple frames to the I-Frame (although technically you could render all I-Frames). If you are motion tracking or lining things up on an overlay, you may be surprised to find that they don’t stay that way when rendered because the deltas frames have been interpreted differently. These codecs do not hold up well to multiple renders which is what you must do going out of, and back into, your NLE.
CineForm, on the other hand, is near lossless and uses Intraframe compression where every frames is a complete frame that can be rendered on it’s own without the need for any other frames. It is more accurate for motion tracking and placement because the frames never change because they are not being composed of other delta frames. This codecs holds up extremely well to multiple renders and can even improve footage with it’s 4:2:2 format.
Which you use it up to you. Another option is to use QuickTime Animation codec which is lossless and also intraframe or the Lagarith or HuffYUV codecs which are both lossless and intraframe as well. Avid DNxHD is also a digital intermediary that you could use. I just find CineForm to be a good trade-off between quality and file size.
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
Thanks for the info. I believe I’ll take your advice and go with Cineform.
I’m curious about your workflow. Do you render out the whole movie with Cineform and do your grading and effects in AE and then render back, or do you do it by scenes or clips?
-
[Ed Law] “I’m curious about your workflow. Do you render out the whole movie with Cineform and do your grading and effects in AE and then render back, or do you do it by scenes or clips?”
I don’t grade in AE, I stay right in Vegas. I only use AE for special effects so I just render the scenes that need the special effects and then render them back to Vegas. If the final shot includes video I’ll use CineForm. If the final shot is a graphic overlay I’ll use QuickTime Animation out of AE because it can carry an alpha channel.
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
John,
Can the Lagarith produce a 4:2:2 format? If so, what are the settings in Vegas 10c?
Jeff
http://www.narrowroadmedia.com
-
[Jeff Schroeder] “Can the Lagarith produce a 4:2:2 format? If so, what are the settings in Vegas 10c?”
Yea, I believe it does YUY2 which is a 4:2:2 format. You just select it with the Configure button.
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
Ok, I bought Cineform.
Am I right in assuming the best way to do this is to take all my camera footage for a project, convert it to Cineform, drop it into a Vegas project and edit.
My camera footage is 1920 X 1080i
I am using Vegas 10 and AE CS5You said you do your coloring in Vegas, but let’s say I want to take advantage of Magic Bullet in After Effects. Do I render the whole project out in Vegas and then export that into AE to do my color grading? How about importing back into Vegas? It seems when I render out in Cineform YUV 4:2:2 Filmscan 1, the files are huge. Not a big deal but I thought Cineform was supposed to lower the filesize and still keep the quality.
If I could solve this piece of the puzzle, I would be on my way. I know I sound like Im just looking for a workflow answer, and I guess I am, since this is new to me. Im used to doing everything in Vegas, and I’m looking to expand and use some other programs.
-
[Ed Law] “Am I right in assuming the best way to do this is to take all my camera footage for a project, convert it to Cineform, drop it into a Vegas project and edit.”
Yes, converting all of your AVCHD footage to CineForm will give you a much smoother editing experience.
[Ed Law] “You said you do your coloring in Vegas, but let’s say I want to take advantage of Magic Bullet in After Effects. Do I render the whole project out in Vegas and then export that into AE to do my color grading?”
Yes, that’s what I would do.
[Ed Law] ” How about importing back into Vegas?”
Render it out of AE using CineForm as well. CineForm holds up really well to multiple renders. That’s why I use it.
[Ed Law] ” It seems when I render out in Cineform YUV 4:2:2 Filmscan 1, the files are huge. Not a big deal but I thought Cineform was supposed to lower the filesize and still keep the quality.”
That’s because FilmScan1 is a very high quality setting. Are you transferring this project to film? If not, the rest of us us Medium and it seems to look just fine. Medium is the default.
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
Ah, I understand. Sounds like medium will be the way to go. At least I have some idea of a workflow and plan.
John thank you for your advice and help. I really appreciate it. -
Reply to this Discussion! Login or Sign Up