Purchase Decision for Work.. help or info pls

[Mylenium]

If you’re mainly delivering for Windows, then get the Win version of AE. There are several things to consider:

a) WindowsMedia on the Mac is not very well integrated as well as most AVI formats. There might be some problems due to the limited choice of CoDecs, meta-information might not be embeded properly etc.

b) There are much more tools to create, modify and optimize WindowsMedia or even old shabby AVIs on a PC (miraculous, isn’t it? ;o)) This can be important on a tight deadline – instead of re-rendering everything you can chop together AVI files based upon manipulations of their data structures (very much like quicktime Pro can do with MOVs). Simple things like replacing an audio track are a no-brainer this way.

c) There’s a lot to be gained of you work on a PC in terms of testing stuff that e.g. goes into some cheesy PowerPoint presentation. You can easily see how well your video integrates with the surrounding design and avoid any technical booby traps. This will greatly improve customer satisfaction ‘cos you can guarantee to a certain extend that things are going to work with all that testing/optimized workflow.

Mylenium

[Pour Myl

[Gregg Brent]

Thanks Mylenium,

That’s exactly the input i was looking for on this board.

one question: you stated “instead of re-rendering everything you can chop together AVI files based upon manipulations of their data structures (very much like quicktime Pro can do with MOVs). Simple things like replacing an audio track are a no-brainer this way”.

Not sure what this means but I think I need too. Can you direct me to where I can learn about doing this? Replacing audio, cutting down on re-rendering intrigues me. And yes, the powerpoint are cheesey!!!

[Jimi Dixon]

Gregg,
Flip4Mac is available for the Mac to create High-Quality Windows Media Files.
It cost $99 but it is well worth it.
For Sound Editing, you might try PEAK.

[Gregg Brent]

Thanks.. will look into Flip4Mac.. sounds interesting.

will look into peak too. the sound edit stuff we would do would be simple fades and cross disolve stuff..

[Mylenium]

[Gregg Brent] “one question: you stated “instead of re-rendering everything you can chop together AVI files based upon manipulations of their data structures (very much like quicktime Pro can do with MOVs). Simple things like replacing an audio track are a no-brainer this way”.

Not sure what this means but I think I need too. Can you direct me to where I can learn about doing this? Replacing audio, cutting down on re-rendering intrigues me. And yes, the powerpoint are cheesey!!!”

AVI files are base on chunks not real streams (That’s why they are spo limited). That makes it easy to find the exact position where the audio is saved in the binary file. You can easily replace one such chunk without ever touching the other data. All you need to do is change the header and EOF info. The same works with multiple video chunks – they will play back as one constant clip but internally are treated separate. Quicktime is based on streams, but also has many CoDecs that create the physical structure as pseudo-chunks so you can manipulate them just like that e.g. the Animation CoDec will treat Alpha and RGB separately. On the other hand there are several formats that use multiplexed strems (MPEG 4, H.264, Sorenson)that cannot be treated this way.

Mylenium

[Pour Myl

[David Johnson]

I’m in exactly the same situation you described, but the decisions you’re trying to make were made before I got there. They went with Macs (even though we have an IT dept of 3000 that will not provide ANY support for the Macs) and I suffer from that decison every day.
That’s not a condemantion of Macs…just an agreement with the points Mylenium made.

The bottom line is that, the recipients of our productions are almost exclusively Windows users…that’s especially true in my situation since we’re in the financial industry. On a daily basis, I deal with a variety of issues related to all the cross-platform work. One small example is that PCs have no problem with Mac file types (MOV, AIF, etc.), but Macs do have problems with AVIs and even some MPGs (in AE).

Keep in mind that print designers/artists don’t have nearly as many issues working on Macs because they don’t have to try to integrate the variety of hardware, software and other equipment required for video/mograph work…just a Mac and the software. And, in my opinion, there are no longer any compelling reasons to do creative work on Macs only…those days are long gone.

As far as going from Avid to FCP, keep in mind that, even though Avid may not be perfect, their systems are undeniably PRO-level NLEs that have been proven in the industry over many, many years…despite the hype, FCP is a pro-sumer level system that is not proven and is very buggy…something it’s advocates (many of whom have never worked on a true PRO-level NLE) ALWAYS fail to mention (I use FCP now, although not by choice).

About conversion & compression software, I started using Media Cleaner at version 3 and was previously a big advocate of the software. However, it sverely went down hill after version 5 and is very buggy (as user comments on Discreet’s own site will prove). I now consider Canopus ProCoder the best conversion & compression software (Ben Waggoner, a well-known media compression guru/author, says the same on the COW and other forums…do a search for comparisons).

At work, we use ProTools for audio, but I use both Adobe Audition and Sound Forge at home and like both of them very much (in that order).

Hope my 2 cents helps you avoid a lot of headaches and sleepless nights.

[Gregg Brent]

Thanks Dave for informative post…

I am now leaning towards the PC version. I’m in same situation that our IT doesn’t support Macs at all. I’m more comfortable working with Macs and can trouble shoot very easily on Macs, but that won’t be my job and will let IT group fix anything that don’t work.

The one question I have is, Our Macs are G5s, the PC’s are Dell P4 small desktop units (not even sure what RAM is or model, etc). Will this be an issue if I get the Adobe Video suite? Or do you need a pretty hefty powerhouse PC to run that software??

PS..My Dell 8400 at home with 1.5 gig of RAM causes such a racket when using AE6.5 and freezes up alot. Not sure why cuz it’s a new PC but others have said I need a Xeon processors.

[David Johnson]

I don’t claim to be an expert on building/fixing computers of either platform, so I can only tell you of my own experiences and my understanding from reliable sources I’ve read and knowledgable people I’ve talked to.

With that said, AMD processors are usually faster and cheaper (what a combo!) than Intel. I’m less certain about this one, but believe that AMD’s Opteron processors are better for video/mograph work. You’ll also want a graphics/video card recommneded by Adobe and as much RAM as you can afford (comparable to a G5…ours have 2Gb and dual 2Gb CPUs).

I wouldn’t recommend using the Dells for a couple reasons. Pre-built/pre-loaded systems typically have a lot of crap on them that may be harmless to the average web surfer, but can cause problems for “power-users”. I’d highly recommend a “pretty hefty powerhouse PC” to the degree budget will allow. People often compare G5s to run-of-the-mill PCs and deduce that Macs are better/more stable…consider a G5 cost several thousand so you need a PC in that range, if you expect the same level of performance. A G5 is top-of-the-line from a company that makes very little for low-end users, while Windows-based systems are made at many more levels to meet the needs of ANYONE. I’d recommend buying PCs intended as NLEs from a company with a good reputation for building PCs specifcally for that purpose, if not a “turn-key” system. For example, while I don’t have personal experience with them, I’ve heard good things about https://www.adkvideoediting.com/ and am considering them for my next system.

Keep in mind, video editing/mograph are among the most difficult things you can ask a computer to do. So, NLEs of either platform should be considered “special use” systems that shouldn’t be treated like any old computer. Your IT dept. may have a few people who are more familiar with these types of systems and you may be able to get maintenance of your NLEs assigned to a specific tech(s).

As someone accustomed to the Mac world, also understand that you MUST protect PCs from viruses, worms, adware, spyware, etc. or they can be rendered useless very quickly. It can be done sucessfully and is not hard, but you have to do it right and immediately. I have NEVER had a virus, spyware or the like on ANY of my PCs because I never let them see the web, a network or external drive until they are properly firewalled, have the best up-to-date anti-virus/internet security software (Trend Micro) with regularly and/or automatically updated virus definitions, and are NEVER touched by ANYONE who is not knowledgable enough to avoid doing anything to put them at risk. You should also avoid loading up any NLE with a lot of uneccesary software (especially freeware or other unproven/unsupported software).

I hope this info prevents you from having to learn some of these things the hard way. Best of luck.

[Gb36]

Dave thanks for all the input.

unfortunately i don’t think my company will spring for a high-end PC. This is really just a software purchase so I have to make do with the little desktop Dell and 17inch monitor if I go with AE for Windows. The IT group takes care of all firewall, virus protection, etc.

So I guess the question is, is it still better to go with AE for Windows using a standard Dell computer with not much power/ram because of compatibility with rest of company, or get the Mac version because it will go on a G5, large monitor and lots of ram.

[David Johnson]

Personally, I’d first try my best to get the company to spring for a relatively high-end PC, then maybe try a demo of AE on the Dell, then if it can’t handle it without problems, go with the Mac version on the G5.

My guess is the benefits of “compatibility with rest of company” will be far outweighed by problems from “not much power/ram” so you may want to skip that middle step altogether, depending on how bad the Dell really is (CPU/RAM/hard drive capacity/pre-loaded software/maintenance history).

The issues raised by a cross-platform workflow are not insurmountable…just unecessary annoying hurdles, in my opinion.