Prove to me BetaSP is dead.

[Chris Clephane]

Ok…after a re-read that sounds a little snotty/catty/bi__hy. Not the intent.
I am honestly receiving a LOT of regular feedback that people feel BetaSP is dead.
And I am confused by this. It is core to our workflow–which I have always assumed was pretty standard–and I keep hearing people say otherwise.

Can someone please clarify?

Thanks,
-C

I edit video. I post sometimes.
I fix things. I eat marshmallows.
I play drums. I drink scotch.
I like TV.

Done typing now.

[Chris Clephane]

Thanks, That confirms/supports many of my suspicions.
(And I will keep this post a little more straightforward….as the subtleties of attempted humor and playful chiding are clearly sometimes lost in the translation to text.)

We have also decided to stick with tape as a primary archival medium for many of those same reasons. (As opposed to a primarily IT-based workflow.) We have already had failures of CD-R media and DVD-R media less than 5 years old. DLT’s are not proving robust long-term either as the newer units are not always playing back the older tapes reliably (in spite of advertised “backwards playback compatibility”.) But those beta tapes come off the shelf and play with no issues….5 years…10 years….15 years old. No issues.

Operating systems and computers have changed significantly over the past 8 years…to the point that I can no longer open old text documents due to planned incompatibility by some manufacturers. (Redmond, WA guys…you know who you are..) But I can always trust the Betas to play. And based on my perception of the industry, I feel I probably need to count on that for another 10+ years or so. .

Our 3/4″SP deck is getting lonely though. (Just one left.)

I edit video. I post sometimes.
I fix things. I eat marshmallows.
I play drums. I drink scotch.
I like TV.

Done typing now.

[Bob Zelin]

Beta is not dead, but Sony doesn’t make it anymore. Just remember – 1″ VTR’s were everywhere, and 2 years after Sony discontinued 1″, every major station still wanted tapes delivered in 1″ format. Everyone said ” 1″ is never going to die” – guess what – they were wrong. Big facilities had millions invested in 1″ VTR’s, with trained personal – both operational, and technical support. Guess what – most of these places are out of business today.

Sony will win (or Panasonic, or whoever – but you and I will not win).

Bob Zelin

[Petteri Evilampi]

Well, here in Europe, (you know, the other continent, behind the big water) NO ONE has been shooting with beta for years. Stations do take in master tapes in beta, but they prefer digibeta or even dvcam (witch is strance to my opinion). Archival stuff is offcourse totally different story. There we are going to need beta decks for decades from now.

[Bouke Vahl]

well, i’m from Europe too, and i’m about to cut a piece for a press conference as well as an EPK.
Stuff will arive on beta, and besides digibeta, the EPK will go out on a few beta’s as well.
(i must admit this is one of the last beta rigs in my city, but nevertheless. If it works, don’t fix it. And this shooter is quite happy with it.)

Bouke

http://www.videoToolShed.com
smart tools for video pro’s

[Del Holford]

We have four BetaSP vcrs in service to handle our legacy footage. We also get requests for delivery on BetaSP from non-profits we edit projects for. I believe we even had a spot delivery for another local station on BetaSP. No, the format is not dead, but as a previous poster said, they don’t make ’em anymore. We have a few spare machines in storage but at some point our traffic department will dub all the BetaSP programs to DigiBeta. We air DVC Pro 25 & 50 so we might make copies in that format as well, although they probably would be ingested to our GVG K2 server for air. BetaSP tape won’t last forever (although it doesn’t begin to flake nearly as badly as quad & 1″ open reel tape). One day it just won’t be viable and all those who take delivery of our projects will have to buy some new machines. They will be the least expensive machines they can get by with. Digital delivery is also becoming a reality and we have both ingested and delivered projects to clients on Quicktime movies burned to DVD ROM. They are SD CCIR-601 format in 720×486 pixel resolution and whatever server inputs them can convert them to their native playout format. Acquisition will eventually be anything from DV to HD and delivery of spots can be digital, even at 1920×1080 resolution, so while tape will be around for a very long time, its use will diminish over time.

Del
fire*, smoke*, photoshopCS3
Charlotte Public Television
del underscore edits at wtvi dot org

[Mike Healey]

My company has been providing spot fulfillment and distribution for the NCTC for almost 3 years. Every spot we receive from HBO, Showtime, Starz, etc. arrive on BetaSP. Almost every spot we send out (with the exception of a select few in very tiny, rural markets) has been delivered on BetaSP. We’re talking well over 50 major markets across the US. The only other format requested has been DVD. Those requests come from small cable co-op’s who simply don’t have or can afford a BetaSP deck.

On the flip side, we also provide fulfillment for a national restaurant chain. All of their market reps order spots on BetaSP with an occasional spot being released on MiniDV or DVD. Not one request has ever been made asking for DigiBeta, DVCPro or any other format for that matter.

There have been times where deadlines were an issue and a QuickTime file was uploaded to an FTP server only b/c FedEx or UPS wouldn’t meet a delivery deadline for a national football game or primetime event. Even in those cases, a BetaSP would have been the normal, and preferred, delivery method.

Everything that passes through the edit suite gets archived on tape to DVCPro as well as to an off line RAID server. The DVCPro archive IS the MASTER with the RAID providing redundancy.

For those out there suggesting BetaSP is dead or even on the way out I seriously doubt we’ll phase it out any time soon. Especially when you consider the other delivery methods and universal compatibility.

My two pennies worth….

~Mike~

[Mark Suszko]

“It’s not dead; it just smells funny”

We still use betaSP but only rarely shoot on it anymore, only in situations where we have to hand it off raw to someone who specifically needs that format. We’re preserving our remaining decks for editing use and don’t like adding the wear and tear of dub runs to production machines. The postage costs alone are a big factor as well: way cheaper to mail a DVC Pro or DVD. We worked it out that for any of our clients that complained they couldn’t use a DVD, we could BUY them a player and still save money over shipping tape. The disc is also the same price and weight if it holds 15 minutes or 2 hours.

We mostly shoot DVCPro 25 now,
and we have been weaning our clients off of beta dubs for some time now, switching them to DVD-R’s. Oddly enough, we get requests from outfits like CNN, Nightline, etc. all the time and they still ask for beta. Why? Because they don’t ask what else we offier, and mostly, because they have accountants.

And accountants won’t let you replace anything until it is literally on fire and melting. As long as its amortized and still making them a buck, they will run it until it can’t be made to run no more, or the feds declare it illegal. We wring every cent of value out of our gear before we send it to surplus.

We’re currently laying off our umatic legacy tapes to DVD-R, a long process, and there may be better ways but this worked out to be the best option for our unique needs. The one-inches and betas will be next as time permits.

Our strategy going forward is to migrate to HD aquisition and output over the next five years, and to distribute “hard copy” HD content on BluRay. It looks like it will work out much cheaper than a tape-based HD solution, and our analysis of the market is that now the HD DVD format war is over, we’re going to see a huge jump in industrial/prosumer/low-end broadcast use of BluRay because it will be very inexpensive and available via stand-alone players as well as drives in computers. Because of that cross-platform compatibility, to me BluRay looks liek the closest thing to a “standard” we’re going to ever see again in this crazy game. Beta was it for twenty years or so, BluRay will likely be for the next ten, after hwhich, we may be using holographics or quantum foam or some other crazy thing. If it stays a standard for a decade, I’d be happy.

So if we can’t uplink a signal to a client or FTP them the file, we’re planning on handing them a BluRay if they want HD. We’ll likely also archive on it. On paper it works out equal to or cheaper than tape per unit cost and the burners and duplicators are definitely cheaper than HD tape recording decks or masses of cheap hard drives. A Primera Bravo pro capable of BluRay dubbing is only three grand and can kick out a hundred dubs an hour, printed, unattended. Compare that to 18 grand for a USED digibeta deck or 25-odd thousand for an HD deck like a DVCPro100 format. We’ll still probably get a pair of those for in-house production use, as they are also backwards-compatible with our legacy DVCPro 25 gear investment. That’s a huge factor.

We’re leaning towards P2 cameras with external strap-on hard drives to get us cheaper, longer-running HD in the field, and editing in FCP, with burns to BluRay as soon as Apple gets their act together and adds BluRay authoring/burning to FCP/DVDSP. I predict that will happen by next NAB, it simply HAS to.

Again, we’re addressing a particular narrowly defined market and needs, so what we choose to do may not fit your unique situation. But it shows you how we’re thinking about it and what weight we give various factors.

[Jahil Maplestone]

Whilst I agree that SP is not dead here in America and is still in use as a record and delivery format they are a little behind compared to other country’s. Australia switched everything to digital(SD) around three to four years ago and went 16×9 while they were at it. There’s still a lot of archival stuff on many different formats but that will continue until someone comes up with the super medium that will last for ever….

I still find myself using 3/4″ and 1″ almost weekly and SP daily, almost as regularly as digi beta.

[Michael Brown]

Most stations and networks with whom we deal still want BSP. Some cable outfits want DVD or DVCAM.
No broadcaster has yet to ask us for HD or even 16:9. That will probably change as Feb 19 approaches.
For us, we originate on DV, DVCAM, DVCPRO, DVCPRO 50, some DVCPRO HD, a little HDCAM here and there; I can’t remember when we shot BSP. I am shooting a lot on PRO 50 lately, so I would consider that an upgrade/replacement for BSP in the field. Dig Beta remains our standard def master format; HD is still in the future for us.
This is from a corporate non-profit producer with about 2500 reels of BSP in the vault.

Mike Brown
Video/Film Producer
American Heart Association