Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 – “Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?”

[Ricardo Marty]

Junkie can be another description at least to some. Even if they really create a game changer but take four years to update, to will it be worth it? 12k could be around the corner.

Ricardo Marty

[Greg Janza]

the notion of pro res being a selling point to stay with Apple is kind of ridiculous.

Adobe Premiere 2017.1
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NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970
OWC Thunderbay 12t x 2 in Raid10 configuration (thru Storage Spaces and Disk Management)

[Tim Wilson]

[greg janza] “the notion of pro res being a selling point to stay with Apple is kind of ridiculous.”

I think it more gets to the “captivity” of the Apple platform. There are people in this very forum who’ve expressed how open they’d be to considering no longer using Macs if there was an easy way to provide deliverables in the ProRes format that the client specifies as part of the contract. There are more options than Mac folks typically acknowledge, but none of them is easy as just having a Mac.

This is of course exactly how Apple intended it to work.

In that sense, it’s quite realistic indeed. It would be lovely world if we were the ones in charge of specifying what the client received as deliverables. ???? But that ain’t THIS world.

[Michael Gissing]

[Michael Gissing] “And Dnx is able to be wrapped in QT or mxf. ”
[Oliver Peters] “So is ProRes.”

Thanks for that correction. I see that happened with 10.3. I’ve never seen it in deliverables. ProRes is always requested as QT. I’ve also never seen it from a camera original. Of course DNx had that capacity years before.

I still think that DNx codecs have an advantage over ProRes as a deliverable format but the point that others have also agreed to is that it isn’t a reason to stick to Apple.

[Michael Gissing]

[Tim Wilson] “In that sense, it’s quite realistic indeed. It would be lovely world if we were the ones in charge of specifying what the client received as deliverables. ???? But that ain’t THIS world.”

Broadcast clients are like the rest us as they are also making hard decisions about what computer and software systems they want to use. I have seen deliverable specs changing over the past years to give a bias to DNx and XAVC Intra codecs. ProRes is still on the lists but pragmatically they are offering a broader range of codecs and wrappers to deliver while ProRes is not being indicated as prefered codec. As ProRes is a two step for me so I just don’t deliver it anymore and it just doesn’t matter. I get ProRes from cameras and I often shoot with that codec as I have had to make sure footage is FCP Legend compatible so I see it as a way of helping editors who still don’t want to move but other camera codecs are driving them to Resolve or Pr.

What was inexplicable was that ProRes became a default codec while DNx was ignored despite being available before. I think Apple was lucky that they launched ProRes at a time that broadcasters were largely using Apple hardware and software and phasing out tape deliverables. I think, like Cioni, broadcasters have been sliding down the same decline as they phase in PC hardware and alternate software.

[Paul Neumann]

Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 -5sp

[Tony West]

Thanks for posting it.

He spoke about one thing that hit home with me and that was longevity (people still using 10 year old macs).

I tened to spend more for products that will last longer. When I bought my first Mac it never went out on me. Never quit running. When I drop 3k on something I want as much as I can get out of it.

It’s funny, if someone buys another say, Toyota, because their last one lasted for a decade with no problems I’ve never heard them called a Toyota fanboy. People just say “I don’t blame you. I had one of those also, there’re FANTASTIC!

He was right about ProRes also.

Amazon Prime which has maybe the best deal for feature filmmakers, asks for ProRes and of course iTunes does. Those are the platforms I care about having my film on.

Somebody might take other formats along with ProRes, but that’s different from saying we won’t take your ProRes.

I will be waiting for that new Mac Pro and hopefully cutting on my old one until it comes out.

[Walter Soyka]

[Tony West] “He was right about ProRes also. Amazon Prime which has maybe the best deal for feature filmmakers, asks for ProRes and of course iTunes does. Those are the platforms I care about having my film on. Somebody might take other formats along with ProRes, but that’s different from saying we won’t take your ProRes.”

Thought experiment! Imagine for a moment that Amazon Prime only accepted video in a proprietary format — AVI-wrapped, “ProAm” codec — and that Amazon flat-out refused to license their ProAm codec to any of the usual suspect desktop video developers on the Mac platform. However, they have made it easily available to all developers running AmazonOS, which itself runs on iAmazons, AmazonBooks, and Amazon Pros.

In other words, imagine if you had to buy some expensive and fancy-pants app for your Mac, like NUKE or SCRATCH, or buy and use an Amazon computer, to have access to ProAm and thus your preferred market. How would you feel about the industry relying on a proprietary codec then?

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]

[Tony West]

[Walter Soyka] “Thought experiment! “

Not really big on “Thought experiments” Walter. I think too many people already have too much trouble figuring out what’s real and somebody’s thoughts.

[Walter Soyka] “How would you feel about the industry relying on a proprietary codec then?”

My point wasn’t about me liking it or not not liking it. I could name a million things that corporations do that I don’t like.

“Some corporation is trying to dominate the marketplace” Ah……………yeah. That’s pretty much what they are all trying to do.

Ironically he was pointing out that Apple didn’t expect ProRes to become what it did. He was saying the marketplace decided that on their own.

I’m just pointing out the reality that I’M dealing with in the market place and addressing some of the points that he was making. He made a lot interesting points that I agree with and are hard to challenge.

[Richard Herd]

[Tony West] “Ironically he was pointing out that Apple didn’t expect ProRes to become what it did. He was saying the marketplace decided that on their own.”

That’s how I understood his comments too.

For Mr. Soyka’s thought experiment: imagine having to transcode all the ProAm to ProOpenSource. Whew.