Prores for History Channel HD?

[Mark Raudonis]

Here is where all your questions will be answered:

https://producers.discovery.com/

Mark

[Shane Ross]

DVCPRO HD is an accepted format for editing, and it is not a good as ProRes. DVCPRO HD is anamorphic 8-bit. ProRes is full raster 10-bit. Yeah, it is an accepted format.

[Amy Wilson] “Anyone know what History Channel’s HD specs are?”

Yes. But they only mention shooting formats and tape delivery. No mention is made of DNxHD or ProREs…at least not last year.

[Amy Wilson] “I’m trying to figure out if I can work with ProRes (HQ or not?) as an online codec?”

HQ is unnecessary…regular ProRes is great. But, it you want, you can.

[Amy Wilson] “Would my best bet then be to work with Prores offline and then upres to uncompressed for the online?”

ProRes is not an offline codec. It is a full res online codec.

Get out of your Avid offline/online workflow mode and joint the world of working at full quality, all the time.

Question…what format are you shooting?

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Amy Wilson]

Thanks for your help. I guess what I’m wondering is if I work in Prores, it can be color corrected and output to HDCam or HDCam SR (or whatever the network wants – I couldn’t find the specs on that link) without anyone complaining about quality? I think what you’re saying is yes. I agree and love working without any upres, just want to make sure that no one has room to complain down the road. I’m working with some people that are very used to the old school process and want to be able to convince them that this is the way to go, but I don’t have the tech knowledge to prove it to them.
I am not sure what format we’ll be shooting. I’m guessing HDCam 1080i60 or whatever the network would prefer.
Thanks again!

[Aaron Neitz]

I wouldn’t hesitate for a second using ProResHQ for a delivery codec when Uncompressed isn’t a viable solution vs. time/money.

FYI laying back to HDCAM or D5 will actually harm your ProResHQ more than a file delivery: it’s a better codec than those formats. Not HDCAM-SR however.

[Shane Ross]

[Amy Wilson] “if I work in Prores, it can be color corrected and output to HDCam or HDCam SR”

Absolutely. I am doing that right now for Discovery. HDV captured as ProRes, color corrected in COLOR, output to HDCAM SR. And Discovery is a bit more strict than History….but not by much. ALthough they do have different levels of production…Bronze, Silver and Gold…all based on the camera you use and the budget for those shows. HDV is Bronze…for good reason.

[Amy Wilson] “I am not sure what format we’ll be shooting. I’m guessing HDCam 1080i60 or whatever the network would prefer.”

Going all out and shooting HDCAM? Wow…spendy. But good cameras. The network is fine with the Varicam and XDCAM cameras too. FYI.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[James Sullivan]

We have just completed a series that was all vericam 24p. The masters were HDCAM at 1080 24p. That seems to be the master they want. You might have to get permission to do 1080i. Prores takes up more room then plain vanilla DVCPROHD at 24p. Something to think about if you are using acres of stock footage or your shooting ratio is too high. My question is whether it is better to online at proress if you plan to grade using color? Or is it better to stay native and run the DVCPRO into Color but come render out on the backend in Proress? Can you push a shot further using one codec over the other?

James Sullivan

[Shane Ross]

I too completed a History Channel series, shot Varicam and P2, 720p 23.98. Upconverted via Kona 3 to HDCAM 1080 23.98psf. Color corrected in COLOR as DVCPRO HD, no converting. Stock footage captured via Kona 3 upconverted to DVCPRO HD (read my article on that here at the Cow…click on my head to get to it).

Looked great, worked great.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Jeremy Garchow]

[James Sullivan] “Or is it better to stay native and run the DVCPRO into Color but come render out on the backend in Proress?”

I’d get out of DVCPro HD at the NLE acquisition stage. Bring your DVCPro HD tape right in to ProRes, that way you will be working full raster, 10bit all the way through the pipeline and you won’t have to worry about thin raster 8bit to full raster 10 bit conversion in software. It will hapen via hardware between your DVCPro HD deck and your capture card.

Jeremy

[Shane Ross]

Why go ProRes? There is no need. DVCPRO HD is half to a third the file size, so you save TONS of space. And yes, in a SAN environment that is a HUGE savings. And DVCPRO HD to Color and back as DVCPRO HD…works fine. 8-bit vs 10-bit but I have had no issues doing that. And we even cross converted 720p to 1080p. Delivered 3 specials and a thirteen episode series this way. All looked great and got compliments from the network.

ProRes isn’t needed for everything.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Shane Ross] “nd DVCPRO HD to Color and back as DVCPRO HD…works fine. 8-bit vs 10-bit but I have had no issues doing that.”

Yes, there’s no issues. It works, you are right, and i am glad the networks were happy and they liked it, but I am talking about preserving quality through the post process.

ProRes as a codec is much better suited for cc due to it’s 10bit color space and full raster encoding. It was designed from the ground up to be an intermediate codec (between acquisition and output). It can handle everything you throw at it. DVCPro HD is mainly an acquisition codec, and a fine one at that. Multiple generations and renders of DVCPro HD will degrade over time, as ProRes holds up pretty well and preserving all of those details though graphics, keying, cc, etc. It is a less lossy process when using ProRes vs DVCPro HD. Besides, I think DVCPro HD can become kind of noisy in darker areas of footage, especially when working with multiple generations of it.

[Shane Ross] “ProRes isn’t needed for everything. “

Certainly not, James asked so I threw in my opinion. If coming off of tape, I see no reason not to go ProRes as you will get decoded uncompressed out of the HDSDI of the deck in to 10bit ProRes to your capture card. If coming off of DVCPro HD p2, then maybe DVCPro HD end to end is the right workflow. AVC-I is certainly a ProRes workflow. Sure it takes more space, and depending on your amount of footage, perhaps even DVCPro HD is too big. But when going to online, ProRes is definitely the way to go, in my little opinion.

I am not saying DVCPro HD doesn’t work, I am just saying that ProRes is a bit better in terms of quality is all.

Jeremy