ProRes 422 broadcast standard?

[John Rofrano]

[Dale Spetz] “I have been reading that ProRes 422 HQ is becoming the new international broadcast deliverable format, in lieu of tapes.”

Where have you been reading that? I haven’t read it, but I experienced it first hand. A lot of post houses will only take ProRes which is sad because it is far from a “standard” it is actually a highly “proprietary” format.

[Dale Spetz] “Is there anyway to get there with Vegas?”

No. There is no way to get there from a Windows computer period. It is a proprietary Apple format that can only be created on a Mac.

[Dale Spetz] “Or does a Vegas generated DNxHD file need to be passed off to a FCP system?”

Yes, Vegas can create DNxHD files which is the preferred format for transferring between a PC and a Mac because it doesn’t have the gamma/color shift problem of some other codecs.

Here is a tutorial on my web site to show you how to make the template:

Create a QuickTime Avid DNxHD Render Template in Sony Vegas Pro

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Dale Spetz]

Thanks for your reply, John. Most recently I had read that ProRes 422 HQ “seemed to be becoming a standard” claim in the literature of fairly large (mostly international) broadcast distributor. I am not sure about DNxHD, but I will look into it.

But, even so, I would still have the 4 audio track requirement. Do you know if it is possible to output 4 audio tracks in DNxHD via Vegas?

I had already seen your DNxHD video and it was very helpful. Thank you!

[Jeff Schroeder]

Watch these guys use an external program to render prores 422 from the vegas timeline.
https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/24/951534

2-Xeon X5680 @ 3.33, EVGA SR-2 Mobo, 48GB DDR3, GTX 580 3072MB, 16TB Attached Storage, Win7, Vegas 11 x64

[Dale Spetz]

Thanks Jeff. But, I must admit that I am a bit confused by that process. I had found something similar (and equally confusing) here: https://slugco.com/meta/ProResOnWindows/

[John Rofrano]

[Dale Spetz] “I must admit that I am a bit confused by that process. I had found something similar (and equally confusing) here”

That’s the same as what Jeff was suggesting which is to use FFMpeg to create ProRes on Windows. I wasn’t aware that FFMPeg had added that capability but I personally would not use a ProRes encoder that did not come from Apple since they are the only ones licensed to distribute it. In fact, you can’t get a ProRes encoder on the Mac without buying FinalCut Pro so there is no “free” ProRes encoder on the Mac either so I can only imagine that what FFMpeg has done may be of questionable legality.

I will update my statement that there is “no” way to encode ProRes on Windows to read, “there is no way to LEGALLY encode ProRes on Windows”. 😉

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Dale Spetz]

Good to know. Thank you.

[Jeff Schroeder]

After reaing John’s comments, I did a search on “ffmpeg prores legal” The summary of what I found is that the files created identify as prores with most(?) NLE’s and players but seem to fail within FCP. This indicates that the reverse engineering, which in some countries is in fact legal, failed to get it 100% correct. Thus, a file created using the ffmpeg method is not technically legal as far as strict ahdesion to the format specsifications.

In the law sense of legal I think John makes a good point about Apple being the only one to distribute the prores encoder. I once made a $335 mistake by using music I thought was legal for me to use. I have been extra careful since then. I would not want to find out in 3 years that I have made 100’s pricey mistakes by using an encoder I thought was legal.

I think it is safe to say that the encoder offered in ffmpeg is not 100 compliant with the prores standard and that the use of this encoder would be considered an infrigment of Apple’s technology.

Jeff

2-Xeon X5680 @ 3.33, EVGA SR-2 Mobo, 48GB DDR3, GTX 580 3072MB, 16TB Attached Storage, Win7, Vegas 11 x64

[John Rofrano]

[Dale Spetz] “But, even so, I would still have the 4 audio track requirement. Do you know if it is possible to output 4 audio tracks in DNxHD via Vegas?”

Yes, you have to assign each of the 4 channels to an Audio Bus in Vegas Pro and assign each Track to the appropreate Audio Bus for that channel. Then when you render you have to do two things:

(1) Check Enable multichannel mapping (you may have to check View all options at the bottom of the Render As dialog to see this option) and press the Channels… button to map your channels.

(2) Select Customize Template… to edit your QuickTime template and select the Audio tab and change the Channels option to 4 Channels.

This will produce a QuickTime file with multi-channel audio.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Dale Spetz]

Works beautifully! I have never done this with the audio.

John, you are a gentleman, a friend and a scholar!

[John Rofrano]

Thank for the kind words Dale, I’m glad you found my post useful.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com