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Proper finishing workflow for FCP (P2 footage) DaVinci (color grading) to Flame.
Hi People,
Recently finished cutting a short shot with the HVX-200 to P2 cards using the DVCPRO-HD codec. We cut on FCP 6.0.3 which worked flawlessly. We’re now in the final stages of finishing and the work flow advised turned out to be a mistake. The edit was entirely straight cuts, with a handful of speed changes.
The post house we’re using advised we provide an up-rezed TIFF sequence, for the color grading session. No problem, we used Compressor to uprez the 720p footage to 1080p. Again, flawless work flow.
Once in session, the color grading worked perfectly. Unfortunately, we didn’t have any heads or tails so what we provided in the TIFF sequence was what we now have in the on-line. At the end of the color correct, we left with a D5 for the on-line.
Now in the on-line, I’m seeing the gross lack of experience in the work flow we were advised to follow from the post house. We are literally rebuilding the entire edit in session from the D5 tape. The EDL we provided isn’t really doing much. Since the P2 footage doesn’t really have timecode that’s relevant to tape, there’s no loading, which is why we were advised to provide a TIFF sequence.
Here’s my problem, this doesn’t feel like a very efficient way to work in an online. It worked for the color correct, but now we’re f’ed rebuilding the edit. In the end it’ll get done, but at the cost of the on-line artist’s patience and overtime.
Does anyone have a good solution to this problem or a better way to go about finishing a P2 project? Here’s the break down of our workflow:
FCP (edit) >>
Clipster (non-linear frame store for telecine) >>
Smoke
I hope this made sense.
Regards,
Will
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9 Replies
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You are using an OLD color correction workflow for a new media type. Things are bound not to work.
Find a colorist who uses COLOR or Final Touch.
Edit in FCP. Media Manage the cut to an external hard drive…with handles (1 second). Take that to a facility that uses COLOR. They color correct, give you a final color corrected project that you can now add titles to and finesse to make sure everything is in sync.
Or…output your show to tape. Have the colorist do a tape to tape color correction.
But…wait. You color corrected BEFORE the online? I don’t understand. Color correction happens AFTER the online…doesn’t it? In my world that’s what happens.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD now for sale!
http://www.LFHD.net
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Hey Shane,
Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, when working at one of the top shops in NYC, you can’t really tell them a $1200 program is the better way to go than their $500k+ plus machine in their $3 million suite. If I were doing this at home, then I’d do it on my laptop using color.
I’m hoping someone has some experience with this sort of workflow, outside the FCP suite.
Best,
Will
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DOn’t tell them. Take them to a really fancy shop running Color. It looks NOTHING like FCP.
We have shops here in LA where the colorist is coloring off a huge 20′ screen using a Christie 2K projector.
But, I know the mentality. Trouble with your situation is that you need something that works, and you are up against agency people who are so used to things being done a certain way. If you don’t do it that way, they literally FLIP.
Yeah, I once lost a bid on a job to a post facility who OVERBID us by $300,000. Nutty.
But, there are post houses out there running FCP and COlor that aren’t rinky dink. Just because the application is inexpensive doesn’t mean the facility is.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD now for sale!
http://www.LFHD.net
Read my blog! -
DOn’t tell them. Take them to a really fancy shop running Color. It looks NOTHING like FCP.
We have shops here in LA where the colorist is coloring off a huge 20′ screen using a Christie 2K projector.
But, I know the mentality. Trouble with your situation is that you need something that works, and you are up against agency people who are so used to things being done a certain way. If you don’t do it that way, they literally FLIP.
Yeah, I once lost a bid on a job to a post facility who OVERBID us by $300,000. Nutty.
But, there are post houses out there running FCP and COlor that aren’t rinky dink. Just because the application is inexpensive doesn’t mean the facility is.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD now for sale!
http://www.LFHD.net
Read my blog! -
[Will Whalien] “We are literally rebuilding the entire edit in session from the D5 tape. The EDL we provided isn’t really doing much.”
I don’t understand what you’re trying to do. In most cases, you would come away from the color grading session with a tape of your finished, graded film. You shouldn’t have to rebuild your edit at all. At the worst, you might have to lay back your audio.
Is this tape not assembled in the order of your edit? If so, why not?
Arnie
Post production is not an afterthought!
https://www.arniepix.com/ -
I do have experience with this workflow – we edit and assemble (online) from P2 in FCP, then output to D5 or HDCam and take it into a DaVinci Tape to tape session with a colorist. We’ll usually do it on final (with titles/graphics), but sometimes we’ll do it on a clean assembly, then bring it back for titling.
We have also brought a TIFF sequence to a post house and had them lay off to D5 or HDCam when it was a less expensive route than renting the deck…
We do this all the time.
Patrick
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As I stated before, this edit was fairly simple, all straight cuts with a few speed ups. I didn’t want to color correct sped up footage, the SMOKE has better speed changing capabilities so I removed these from the entire edit prior to making the TIFF sequence which I provided the post house. We don’t have a D5 at our shop so outputting to tape wasn’t an option.
In the future, when working with multiple layers with transitions, not just straight cuts, what’s the solution here? Normally, we walk away from a color grading session with a master transfer tape with all the selects in the edit. Whicb in turn reflects the various timecodes for each shot in the EDL. The EDL and transfer master are given to the online operator and before you know it the cut has been rebuilt. With P2 media, how do you achieve this from transfer to online? There’s no timecode, no source tapes, nothing an EDL can reference. Thus we rebuild the entire edit in the online, matching the rough as we go. Very inefficient.
I read the SMOKE can read XML documents. And even found a tutorial on the AUTODESK site for exporting a new project through media manager with an XML document. Not sure the tutorial addresses P2 media. This is find for going from FCP to FLAME but what about FCP to telecine, then to Flame.
Thanks again,
Ed
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Patrick,
Thanks for your post it was good to know that someone has found a solution. I’m not going to color correct a titled output, doesn’t make much sense. And what about if you’re dealing with multiple layers? Normally, we always have the option of transfer scenes with heads and tails. Can’t really do this with P2.
Still troubled….
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[Will Whalien] “I didn’t want to color correct sped up footage, the SMOKE has better speed changing capabilities so I removed these from the entire edit prior to making the TIFF sequence which I provided the post house. We don’t have a D5 at our shop so outputting to tape wasn’t an option.”
This is where you buy the twixtor speed plugin and keep it on final cut and don’t use the smoke for it.
*smoke and fcp don’t work well together at all unless your doing cmx3600 .edl and your sources are tapes.
P2 workflows will not work smoothly the way you envision it, If I understand you correctly. (at least with the current smoke, flame, inferno, fire suites)
Yes, the way to proceed is to do tape to tape color correction and rent HDCAM or D5 decks and just have it be part of the budget.
We used to offline on Avid and online on smoke and from
that experience I can tell you this really is the best option in this scenario.
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