Project scope limits?

[Tim Kolb]

Hi David

Have you exchanged the motherboard on that rig that was flagged as problematic?

Premiere Pro…moreso in the version that you have than later versions, (CS4 seems to be running fairly stable to this point for me) does have some issues as the project file grows larger and the page file size increases…and management of these sorts of processes is where a problem motherboard certainly is not doing you any favors.

Many of us run with the performance tab of the task manager open almost all the time to track this. Typically each machine will have a pagefile size that is the ceiling and the app will crash. I typically click out to another window to get the pagefile to decrease and occasionally restart for good measure, but I haven’t noticed much of an issue since CS3 was updated the last couple times.

PPro uses a lot of memory and of course, Windows XP has a limitation. The reports coming back from Vista 64 users (who can find stable drivers for everything else on the system) is that once Adobe apps can each reach out and grab 2 Gigs of RAM of their own instead of swapping 2.5 back and forth, most issues simply disappear. Premiere and Premiere Pro have never been tolerant of two things in my 10 years of using it…RAM issues will simply bring it down-limitation or defect, and video data starvation (harddrives that can’t keep up with the data rate on playback, say like running uncompressed HD on a single 7200rpm USB2 drive or some such thing…)

I think the bottom line is that PPro 1.5 is now about…4-5 years old? Computer software isn’t like buying a $40K Beta SP camcorder in the old days (the 1990s) and running it for 8-10 years. It’s tough to eternally support past versions of software and I think you’ll find most manufacturers only support one version back. (In Adobe’s case, CS3 and CS4)

I know that Matrox supports its products, but I’d guess even in their case, the technical knowledge base of PPro 1.5 is fading fast…

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

[David Grantham]

Hi Tim. Thanks.

Desperate for a solution as I begin merging smaller sequences into larger ones.

(It’s clear that I should have decided not to rely on this setup for the reasons you cite, but I received eoncourgement down the oppsoite path from Matrox through the years of troubleshooting and into last year.)

I’ve got 2 GB of ram, but my project takes half of that. I have been running with task manager open to check that.

You refer to a method to get the page file to decrease. Clicking out to another window. Does that mean activating the window of another programme running concurrently with PPro? If so, can you recommend a benigh windows accessory uitility to run for that purpose? If not, can you explain a bit more? This could provide immedaite relief for which I’m[ despearate.

As to PF use, everytime I chekc it’;s only at about 1.5 GB. But of course it may spike at chras h moment when Im’ occupied on the interface. Frequently after a crash there’ll be much disc activity, I assuem deleting the PF.

(Re mohterboard replacement, I got outbid on a replacement computer yseterday – couldn’t face tthe prospect of a possible reinstallation and configuration at the moment without some predictablitiy of success on it. An optimal system type to seek may have arisen on the business for um this morning, though.)

[Tim Kolb]

Yeah…sometimes it’s like what seems to happen in a military campaign…the general has the 100 ft view and says “things are great” and the infantry pinned down with no air support says “things are (words to the effect of) in need of significant improvement.”

Many times the board manufacturer may have not had issues with their testing, but system integrators have had many more “boots on the ground” experiences…

Anyway…I have 4 Gigs on board and a dual, dual-core AMD system, and I know that a page file much over 1.8 Gigs can sometimes be a problem…and over 2 Gigs, it’s time to restart the app. As I’ve said, initially with CS3, this was more of an issue than I’ve seen lately. With only 2 Gigs of RAM, I’d surmise that a 1.5 GB pagefile is a strain on the system…

Sometimes it’s as easy as clicking out to the desktop, or even just making the Performance monitor window that you have open the focus for 10-20 seconds…also just saving the project seems to help.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

[David Grantham]

Thanks Tim I am testing versions of this project with drastically reduced assets and sequences.

System use:

I havn’t yett tested the system while requiring it to render editing in rpogress, but in repose all project versions have about the same system stats.

They leave me about .6 to .8 GB of Ram free and the PF is at about 1.2GB occupied. This includes one version with only one sequence up with nothing on the timeline.

In fact the amount of Ram available is more (.8 GB) for the more complex version of the project.

Cooling?

Some crashes seem to invovle display aberrations. (Not all) The image in the moitor window will displya fragment of the interface rather than the video, or the taskmanager wil leave bits of itself all over the screen as I move it around. I have extra fans but the video card felt a bit hot to me after he last such crash. I don’t have time to get more fans installed, but is there any way to arrange ice near the computer to cool it down? I live in a very dry (and cold) climate in western canada so there wouldn’t be a big condensation problem. I’ve got the place cooled down as much as I can.

[Tim Kolb]

Actually, you have no RAM “free” in a 2GB system…Windows XP and PPro will be fighting over RAM allocation all the time as neither will have as much as it wants…

Display problem…what display card do you have? Frequently with CS3 and older versions of Adobe software, even the latest drivers -at the time- weren’t usually “certified” by Adobe. i just had an issue today with Encore CS4 where i had to update the display card driver on my laptop workstation, but for my desktop system, i’ve traditionally been one or two versions back from the latest release in NVIDIA drivers anyway… i don’t know about other manufacturers.

If you have the latest drivers for the display card in there…it may simply have a conflict with PPro 1.5 as it may have been developed long after 1.5 was current and there’s some conflict that didn’t show up with later versions of the program.

I might check the display card mfr’s website and see if you can find a list of drivers for your display card with a release schedule…and start with some drivers that were released about 4-5 years ago (or whenever this system was built) and see if that helps the display problem.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

[David Grantham]

OKay. Heavens. Reinstalling the catalyst drivers. OKay. Looking for the oldest one because the one I see installed is about 2 years newr than the rolled-back OS. This was overseen by Matrox when the vednor reinstalled everything in November.

[David Grantham]

So the earliest drivers available for the radeonX1650 card I have are from 07/11. I could try them or get a different card. I’m sure even they are far in advance of the OS version I have, (which I belive is just the firs t versio of SP 2) but all this was vetted by Matrox at the time of the last rebuild

Matrox recommended a current card would be unlikely to lead to any problems so I used that card when the original dislpay card got damaged when new fans were installed to cope wiht the fact that the matrox card was stiulated to be in the slot underneath the display card, which overheated all; this stipulation was eventualy rescinded (but wihtout notice) in favour of another slot onthe board which matrox had initally aparently overlooked which also worked (supposedly) for the card.

Maybe getting that card wasn’t such a good idea.

Curiously, the only card that shows up on the recommended card list for this motherboard now on matrox’s site is a matrox pahrelia. WhenI got the machine the one I started with – a radeon 9800 – was recommended. Curous that such things change.

[Tim Kolb]

…and from that original overheating episode, you’re sure the Matrox card was not damaged?

I’ve already forgotten what the exact motherboard you have is…I’m not a system integrator in ANY sense of the word…but I also know absolutely nothing about Radeon display cards…I’ve been on NVIDIA stuff for about 8 years or so…I had a big iron laptop some years ago that had a Radeon card in it (in fact it was the display card that failed in that machine), but that was the last I’ve worked with one…

It comes down to slots as well…not all PCI-X slots are clocked the same…PCI-E slots are not always placed very well for larger display cards as heat sinks and other stuff blocks the extra length of the larger cards…

Again, not knowing the back story on the whole combo of motherboard, video RT card, display card, etc…all I can do is guess.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

[David Grantham]

The overheating didn’t damage the video card, I did tinkering in there. No new problems with anything else arose after its replacement. But 2 Nvidia cards i tried after that would not dislpay video properly in windows media player, so I ended up with the one I have now.

I sure apprecaite the help I’m getting, I’m trying to research solutions, test processor load, look for and research compatible used harware, and finish this project on a crashing machine on a much-delayed drop-dead deadline of tomorrow. I’m beginning to think I should focus on only one avenue, but I’m not sure what it is. I don’t think I can pursue them all.

I’m hoping for the diminished load route, actually – the devli I know. But I am relying on copying from several sequences into a final one for the finished piece. If I create a separate project for each sequence I cn’t do that. I’d have to output them as avis (which isn’t working properly – mpeg encoding is – for any cropped video of which there’s a bit) and edit them, without much ability to edit the result, and the generation loss of multiple compression.

I appreciate any thoughts.

[Alan Lloyd]

If I’m understanding this, you need to combine sequences. Can you not output a sequence from a project in uncompressed AVI form and then load it in and crop it as part of the master project? If you do that, most of what you’ll need is disk space.

I know recompressing (concatenation) gets ugly pretty quick – I learned that the hard way.

What I’m suggesting is this:

Project =====> uncompressed AVI sequence output (n);

Master project =====> multiple uncompressed AVI files (n1, n2, n3…) =====> final output, including cropping or other manipulation.

Or am I missing something else here?