-
Pretty amazing Thunderbolt demo.
-
[Jeremy Garchow] “Precisely. We could also email and browse the web on laptops, but as soon as we were able to take that capability and carry it around in our pocket…”
I get that. I’m not trying to minimize Thunderbolt. I agree with you that Thunderbolt will change the way we can work, and I said so in my last post (though not as articulately as you have here).
Thunderbolt is all about more capability per pound (which is not the same as more raw capability). It means doing things on a laptop that you used to need a desktop for.
Thunderbolt is impressive — but relatively, not absolutely. 4K editorial isn’t new, but 4K on a laptop is.
[Jeremy Garchow] “You mean a 24 sizzle core beast, I’m sure.”
I absolutely did! Thank you for the correction.
[Jeremy Garchow] “The point of this demo is that a year ago, you could not do what he is trying to do without some serious computing hardware with a lot of physical heft and a mini van. In my mind, that’s an accomplishment. “
You wouldn’t have needed serious computing hardware to do this a year ago. The RAID and the Red Rocket are doing most of the work here. You could have used any cheap Core i7 desktop with a couple PCIe slots. As a bonus, you could have also added a proper NVIDIA card for CUDA acceleration in Premiere Pro. Reading files from disk and passing data to an expansion card has not been exclusively a part of the sizzle core value proposition for several years now.
Really, if you replaced all the references in this demo to the MacBook Air with references to a Costco minitower and all references to Thunderbolt to PCIe, what would change?
Even with a MacBook Air, you still need a cart or desk to hold the RAID and the Sonnet chassis, and you still need power, so it’s not like this is a completely portable solution.
Whether you’ve got a minitower or an Air with external doodads, a minivan is not required — although since a DIT would probably have this in a nice wheeled case, it might be a good idea.
[Jeremy Garchow] “And once optical cables get here, it’s all extendable. To me, it’s a big deal. To the sizzle core crowd, maybe not so much. To each their own.”
I am squarely in the sizzle core crowd, but that doesn’t mean I can’t appreciate what Thunderbolt will do. 4K on a laptop is incredibly cool! I’m not trying to rain on the “Thunderbolt adds peripheral expansion” parade — 4K on a $1500 computer is a big deal — but I am throwing buckets on the “Thunderbolt adds compute power” parade.
I just think that some balance to the Thunderbolt hype is important. Let’s acknowledge what Thunderbolt is good for, but let’s not set expectations for it too high. It moves PCIe devices that have existed and worked for years out of the computer case. No more, no less.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Walter Soyka] “You wouldn’t have needed serious computing hardware to do this a year ago. The RAID and the Red Rocket are doing most of the work here. You could have used any cheap Core i7 desktop with a couple PCIe slots. As a bonus, you could have also added a proper NVIDIA card for CUDA acceleration in Premiere Pro. Reading files from disk and passing data to an expansion card has not been exclusively a part of the sizzle core value proposition for several years now.
Really, if you replaced all the references in this demo to the MacBook Air with references to a Costco minitower and all references to Thunderbolt to PCIe, what would change?
Even with a MacBook Air, you still need a cart or desk to hold the RAID and the Sonnet chassis, and you still need power, so it’s not like this is a completely portable solution.
Whether you’ve got a minitower or an Air with external doodads, a minivan is not required — although since a DIT would probably have this in a nice wheeled case, it might be a good idea.”
I guess when I say serious, I mean larger, not necessarily CPU cycles. What would change is that I could get a mobile 4k playback rig in a carry-on. This is huge, I wouldn’t consider myself a DIT, but I can hold my own. A realtime capture (read, proxy) creator with red raw playback with minimal gear is of huge interest.
With laptops, you could have had something like the mobile rocket and some sort of SAS storage all hamstrung over 1x Express/34. This nullifies capture/broadcast playback. This is a big deal to me, and makes things, first of all more capable when traveling, and second, more convenient. This setup you see here doesn’t require CUDA. I know, it’s not a big deal Walter and the Sizzle Core’s, but it is to me. I’m not locked to a CUDA GPU. I can use any thunderbolt laptop, Mac or eventually PC, and not have to worry too much about the specs. Bring along the trusty Kartmaster, and I’m pretty golden.
Now, back to fantasy land, I wish there we’re a generic Red Rocket card. A video accelerator that was format agnostic, and not a traditional GPU, but perhaps using GPU technology. AJA’s “Riker” preview seemed kinda like it, but not. It was PCIe 2 at nab 2011.
[Walter Soyka] “I just think that some balance to the Thunderbolt hype is important. Let’s acknowledge what Thunderbolt is good for, but let’s not set expectations for it too high. It moves PCIe devices that have existed and worked for years out of the computer case. No more, no less.”
And all that comes with that. Not CPU, but capability, which I will trade for less CPU.
My first personal system I bought was a Ti PowerBook. I edited dvcprohd over FireWire. I was happy and the rig offered me many opportunities that wasn’t possible before. Eventually, the G5 came to compliment it.
In a way, this rig represents the same capability to me.
Jeremy
-
[Jeremy Garchow] “I guess when I say serious, I mean larger, not necessarily CPU cycles. What would change is that I could get a mobile 4k playback rig in a carry-on. This is huge, I wouldn’t consider myself a DIT, but I can hold my own. A realtime capture (read, proxy) creator with red raw playback with minimal gear is of huge interest. “
I really do think that 4K playback from a laptop is exciting.
But isn’t the itty-bitty DIT cart in your pocket crowd just as niche as the the sizzle core beast crowd?
I work on the road a lot, and I understand the tradeoffs between itty bitty and sizzle core beast very well. Sometimes it’s got to fit in a Pelican, sometimes it’s got to render in under an hour. Different needs require different tools.
I am glad that Thunderbolt is here to make laptops more capable, but going back to your original post asking about Mac Pros — once you’ve done your 4K playback in the field, wouldn’t it be nice to have a workstation back in the office that can do more than just play it back?
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
like i said 6 months ago…the mac mini will be the new mac pro! it’s all about evolution.
-
[Walter Soyka] “I am glad that Thunderbolt is here to make laptops more capable, but going back to your original post asking about Mac Pros — once you’ve done your 4K playback in the field, wouldn’t it be nice to have a workstation back in the office that can do more than just play it back?”
I’ll need more than an Air, but do I need a MacPro?
Or a CPU/GPU/Ram box?
Today, MacPro. A few days from now? I really don’t know.
-
[kim krause] “like i said 6 months ago…the mac mini will be the new mac pro! it’s all about evolution.”
That’s one of the most uninformed comments in weeks. Kudos!
-
Just a side note, I went into my local Apple Store yesterday and they still have Mac Pros on display, hopefully a good sign!
Steve Connor
“FCPX Agitator”
Adrenalin Television -
glad you think so! read jeremy’s thread below here…he’s saying the same thing and shane is just arguing with him. i’m not implying today or even next month but if you can make a macbook air run this stuff with a thunderbolt breakout box then i see no reason why a mini can’t replace in the near future. i have replaced a 2 year old macbook pro with a macbook air and haven’t noticed any decrease in performance. who’s to say that a super hot mini isn’t in the works? you gonna have egg on your face if i’m right.
-
hey jeremy…how come you can get away with saying this stuff and when i try i get labelled an idiot or a toad or whatever. 3 cheers for you for proving my points and fighting the fight. keep it up….traded my mb pro for a air and gonna drop the tower as soon as i get the bmd tb interface. going mini for the front end and mini servers for the rest.
-
[Jeremy Garchow] “Have you tried to playback 4k Raw footage on a desktop?”
Ummm… I have and my straight from the shelf Acer desktop can run realtime 4K RED on PPro with Mercury Playback Engine without a Red Rocket or a RAID.
Reply to this Discussion! Login or Sign Up