Creative Communities of the World Forums

The peer to peer support community for media production professionals.

Forums Adobe Premiere Pro Premiere Pro and Decklink 10 Bit Playback is 8 bit bandwith.

  • Premiere Pro and Decklink 10 Bit Playback is 8 bit bandwith.

  • Paul Jay

    January 17, 2013 at 5:02 pm

    I’m surprised this issue is ignored for a long time. I’ve posted this issue before and it’s confirmed by more people.
    I’m posting this in the Premiere Pro and the Blackmagic Design forum.

    Problem: Adobe Premiere CS6 ( latest version, latest decklink driver on 10.8.2. ) does NOT output a 10 Bit image on a 10 Bit Monitor with 10 Bit sequence and footage.

    I can guarantee that anyone with a 10 Bit SDI monitoring system will be able to reproduce this problem.

    Here is a 10 Bit ProRes 444 animated gradient movie.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/z1fotwb6p3c4fj7/10%20Bit%20YUV%20ProRes444%20Gradient.mov

    Import this file in Premiere Pro. Match sequence. ( or do a custom 10 bit YUV sequence , doesn’t matter )

    Render the sequence and playback with Decklink or other I/O card.

    You will see BANDING in the gradient. It’s an 8 bit band image.

    If you do the same in FCP 7 or X. You will see a perfect, smooth, 10 bit image on your 10 bit reference monitor

    I would like Adobe to respond to this issue, because this means that you are laying off tape in 8 bit.

    If people out here know people at Adobe ( because i don’t ) please let them know about this, because calling Adobe support on this issue is impossible.

    Thank you.

  • Kris Merkel

    January 17, 2013 at 5:47 pm

    In what app is this file created and are you sure it is a 10bit. I played it out from AE via aja IOxt to a true 10bit panel (FSI CM-170) and the file does indeed have banding. I purposely used a different app and output than you to see if it was your workflow or the file itself. However I also see banding out of FCP7 via the IOxt and the BMD ultraStudio 3D. The ramp from my signal generator shows a perfectly smooth grade compared to the test file.

    So now you know that it is not Premiere Pro or your BMD unit. Strangely enough the file does not play out of AJA tv, it will open the file and the monitor will sync to the 1080i 25 but not display on the monitor at all, where as other ProRes 444 10 bit files play just fine.

    “Think of everything in terms of building capacity.”

    Kris Merkel
    twitter: @kris_merkel
    Product Manager, Flanders Scientific Inc.
    http://www.shopfsi.com
    Co-Founder, Atlanta Cutters Post Production User Group
    http://www.atlantacutters.com

    2.2Ghz MBP core i7
    16Gb RAM
    CS6/FCP7
    AJA T-Tap
    AJA IO XT
    FSI LM-2461W/CM-170W



  • Paul Jay

    January 17, 2013 at 8:48 pm

    Hi Kris,
    You can create the Gradient yourself if you don’t trust it.

    I created an animated Gradient in FCP7 with a Gradient Generator.
    I used a 1920 x 1080P ProRes 444 Sequence
    Export with current settings.
    Just try it yourself.

    I’m sure you will get banding in After Effects and Premiere Pro. It’s like 9 bit-ish

    Paul

  • Paul Jay

    January 17, 2013 at 8:56 pm

    I get a full smooth 10 bit image from FCP7 with this file. Have you checked your video playback settings in FCP7? Are they 10 bit?

  • Paul Jay

    January 17, 2013 at 9:18 pm

    You can also create a ramp in After Effects. I’m sure it won’t give a 10 bit output on AJA or Blackmagic playback.

  • Kris Merkel

    January 17, 2013 at 9:28 pm

    The file looks no different playing out of FCP7, Premiere Pro, or After effects. Not really sure how to help since I cannot reproduce different results from any NLE or I/O unit I have at my disposal.

    I am willing to bet the Farm though, that your video stream is indeed 10bit. What monitor are you viewing the output of the decklink?

    “Think of everything in terms of building capacity.”

    Kris Merkel
    twitter: @kris_merkel
    Product Manager, Flanders Scientific Inc.
    http://www.shopfsi.com
    Co-Founder, Atlanta Cutters Post Production User Group
    http://www.atlantacutters.com

    2.2Ghz MBP core i7
    16Gb RAM
    CS6/FCP7
    AJA T-Tap
    AJA IO XT
    FSI LM-2461W/CM-170W



  • Paul Jay

    January 17, 2013 at 9:37 pm

    It’s a Dreamcolor setup. HDSDI from Decklink -> AJA HDP2 -> HDMI input Dreamcolor.

    Maybee dropbox did something to my file so lets forget about the source file.
    I would very much appreciate if you could check this out.

    1. You open FCP7
    2. Go to Generators-> Choose Gradient.
    3. Drag it in a 10 Bit ProRes 444 sequence.
    4. Render full quality.
    5. Check View – Video Playback Settings -> 10 Bit

    Now you should have a smooth 10 bit image on your monitor. I’ve tested this 100 of times.
    It just looks perfectly smooth on my dreamcolor. No banding what so ever.

    6. Now export quicktime with current settings.

    7. To check the exported file is indeed 10 Bit.
    Re-import the File in FCP7.
    The file will still look 10 bit on your monitor.

    Now import the same file in Premiere or After Effects.
    You will have banding.

  • Kris Merkel

    January 17, 2013 at 10:01 pm

    A couple of quick questions to help solve the issue? First, what is your final deliverable? Second, What is your video source going to be? I am having difficulty understanding what you would need a ProRes 4444 file for, when in most applications ProRes 422 (HQ) would be more than adequate. Also ProRes is not an ideal codec to work within Adobe Premiere anyways when you can work with it natively in FCP7 and export the file in it’s native codec without having to re-encode.

    Your monitor has a 10 bit wide gamut panel but still most deliverables will be in the REC709 colorspace and 444 monitoring requires a 3Gbps SDI stream (or dual link) which your signal path does not allow for with the SDI to DVI-D to HDMI connection. Nor will you be able to see any field reversal issues with that signal path or on the dreamcolor.

    I agree that banding is present in the ramp, and to me it looks the same in FCP7 and PrPro, however in any real world environment where you are creating content for the Web, Cable or Broadcast. That amount banding is aceptable and anything more is overkill.

    Sorry I couldn’t help any further

    “Think of everything in terms of building capacity.”

    Kris Merkel
    twitter: @kris_merkel
    Product Manager, Flanders Scientific Inc.
    http://www.shopfsi.com
    Co-Founder, Atlanta Cutters Post Production User Group
    http://www.atlantacutters.com

    2.2Ghz MBP core i7
    16Gb RAM
    CS6/FCP7
    AJA T-Tap
    AJA IO XT
    FSI LM-2461W/CM-170W



  • Paul Jay

    January 17, 2013 at 10:24 pm

    I appreciate your time but this is not going to work indeed.
    I understand what you’re saying but this is a technical issue.
    If you follow my steps that i described, you will def. see a big difference in Premiere.

    It’s not about ProRes 444.
    You can do this test with any ProRes 422 sequence as well. It’s about 10 Bit footage that’s not 10 Bit anymore on output.

    When i’m doing graphics in After Effects, i don’t want to see banding on my monitor when a client is there.
    If you create a blurred circel in your After Effects, you will see banding on your FSI monitor.
    After Effects doesn’t output 10 Bit over Blackmagic or AJA.
    Same for Premiere.

    Why don’t you create an After Effects composition. Create a blurred circel or a ramp and you will see banding.
    That’s the problem here.

  • Jeremy Garchow

    January 18, 2013 at 2:03 am

    I can’t get 10bit baseband out of Pr either.

    What’s going on here?

Viewing 1 - 10 of 12 posts

Log in to reply.

We use anonymous cookies to give you the best experience we can.
Our Privacy policy | GDPR Policy