Please Help Me 30p to DVD

[Tom Brooks]

Hey vv,
That older 30P thread got a little scattered in my opinion, by the the time it was all said and done. To the point where I’m not sure it is a reliable source of information. Let me clarify the workflow that appears to result in 29.97 progressive frames per second on a DVD.

1. Shoot 30P or produce 30P animation. (It’s actually 29.97 in NTSC land.)
2. Use the normal DV NTSC easy setups for Final Cut Pro.
3. Create a sequence, go into the sequence settings, and set the Field Dominance to None.
4. Edit as usual.
5. Export using Compressor. Choose the normal preset for 90 Minute High Quality encoding. Leave all settings on default.
6. Bring the resulting MPEG-2 into DVD Studio Pro and make your DVD.

When I follow this recipe I can verify that the MPEG-2 file is progressive frames by playing it in Quicktime Player. It has no comb artifacts when viewed on the computer monitor. Likewise, the DVD (created in DVD Studio Pro) has progressive frames. When played on a normal set top DVD player to an interlaced TV, it has no comb artifacts and the pause is a perfect still frame.

It was not clear to me that your camera-original footage was shot 30P. If your original is interlaced, this method will not work. The only way to get progressive from it would be to use some type of deinterlacer on the clips. Simply changing sequence field dom to none won’t do it.

I hope this helps get you where you want to go.
-Tom

[Videovideo]

Hey Tom,

Thanks. I need more help. When I follow your instructions and bring this mpeg into dvdsp i see the asset but when i simulate, build/format and burn — the simulation and brned disk is a grey box– that is the image on the dvd. DVDs have always been the drama in my post experience. Please I am meeting with client today. Thanks. Also in fcp the qt setting is at interlaced should i change to progressive. Thanks.

vv

[Videovideo]

got it to burn followed your instructions and stillthe combing effect.

this is the field dom to none, orig interrlaced capture ntsc, qt settoings interlaced

would having the mpeg on my external hd affect tthis?

i am using low consumer data maxtor drive for my capture scratch and mov/mpeg exports.

thanks for your continued assistance.

[Don Greening]

[videovideo] “his is the field dom to none, orig interrlaced capture ntsc, qt settoings interlaced”

Like Tom said, if your source footage is interlaced then you need to de-interlace and render the effect before exporting your timeline, otherwise Tom’s workflow suggestion won’t work.

[videovideo] “would having the mpeg on my external hd affect tthis?”

No.

The link below may help to clarify your interlace questions regarding lower/upper fields as opposed to setting to “none” in the FCP timeline.

https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/955605

– Don

[Videovideo]

Don,

Thank youfor your help but i am stillhaving troubles. I captured using easy set up standard dv ntsc interlaced. I changed seq settings to none, reconnected the media to the standard dvntsc interlaced capture, rendered at full. Exported using compressor current settings. then created in dvdsp. stillhaving the combing effect when played back on my computer.

I am moving media to a faster drive, this is the only thing I can think is the problem.

As my origional post notes, I have tried multiple variations. After looking at the steps I have taken,do you see any holes or steps i am missing? Thanks so much.

VV

[Adam Smith]

None of your combing/display issues are related to drive speed, and in your workflow posted above, it sounds like you’re still working with interlaced footage…

Can you confirm that you’ve either:

A) shot and captured progressive video
or
B) shot and captured interlaced video, and then de-interlaced all clips and rendered

There are no settings you can adjust to make interlaced video into progressive without some sort of de-interlacing. Setting the sequence field preference to None does not make the footage progressive scan, it merely tells FCP how to correctly display your progressive footage.

—
Video Photographer / Avid Editor / Final Cut Neophyte

[Videovideo]

Thank you kindly for your posts. I am still working on this, it has been days now. It is Due. Baffled- what is going on.

I wish I had my own in-house post supervisor.

The person who shot this said he shot it 30p– progressive. He noted to not capture with regular dv ntsc settings but to change capture settings from interlaced to progressive. He also noted to change the QT settings in the sequence to progressive.

Can you please explain why it sounds as if I am working in interlaced?

When I place either footage captured as a regular capture preset dv ntsc interlaced and place on timeline with upper or lower fields, and then change settings to none- or– when I duplicate a sequnce with the cut, make offline, and reconnect with the new progressive captured footage both starkly reveal that the “none” setting in sequence perfects the image so there is no comb effect. I have zoomed in to 200, 400, 800 percent on both the interlaced and progressive footage sequences set to “none” and compared pixels. It looks as if I am achieving the same effect on either timeline. What does this mean.

Additional issues:

1. this is a 2 cam dance project shot in a theater. There is much black in the image. The black looks squishy/pixley (not fully pixilated) ***almost*** like there is a small mosaic filter on the image, which can be seen especially in the black. I read somewhere to add a 1/2 pixel vertical radial blur to the image– but this did nto help at all.

2. when playing close attention to the black it is as if the picture shifts/ twitters/jumps up and down– does this have something to do with upper or lower fields.

2. DVDSP– so the extreme comb is gone from either the prog or interlaced captures– the images looks ok– however– there is “ghosting” a little around the dancers bodies. As there is excess luma in the image if I put a filer on this — would this help?

At this point I do not care about the progressive “look.” The goal now is to burn this DVD and move onto the next project. the footage does look progressive– it has that specific “flimic” quality. Thus I am assuming I am having to treat it as such to bun this dvd. Additionally, the comb effect I am seeing is something I have not encountered with ye olde 29.97 dv ntsc footage I have captured a-plenty.

The reason for progressive is that it retains a filmic look and is easy to play on a computer, is that correct? DVD player on my mbp defauts to “deinterlace” I have to uncheck this in order to view the video properly. If I do not uncheck this, the DVDs look like they have the comb effect. How will this be communicated to the viewer of the video if they put into their computer? There must be a simple way for someone to put this intheir comuter and not see the combing.

I attempted to apply the deinterlace filter to the sequence and it reveals the comb jagged look.

Expoting a ref mov from fcp and Burnng in idvd from either the progressive or interlaced footage it is quite jagged. The menus are cool but does not seem like the compresion is correct although I read idvd uses the same type of engine as compressor.

Thanks.

VV

[Don Greening]

[videovideo] “The black looks squishy/pixley (not fully pixilated) ***almost*** like there is a small mosaic filter on the image, which can be seen especially in the black.”

Most likely what you’re seeing isn’t the result of an interlacing effect but more like shooting with picture gain dialed up in the camera. Of course, without being able to see what you’re looking at this is just a guess.

[videovideo] “The reason for progressive is that it retains a filmic look and is easy to play on a computer, is that correct?”

Correct. I wouldn’t use the term “easier”, but computer screens are progressive so 30p will look better on those than on an interlaced CRT television. The reverse is true for interlaced footage in that it will look better on a CRT television than it will on a computer screen. One way to tell for sure if your source footage is progressive is to watch it on a CRT monitor/television. Pause the playback. If the picture is solid and not twittering then it’s progressive. If you can see the paused frame sort of vibrating then you’ve got 2 interlaced fields.

When you’re watching your completed DVD on your MBP make sure that the DVD player screen resolution is set to play your movie at “actual size.” The player will default to playing at full screen resolution, which would make any DV NTSC movie look pixelated and awful. Remember that the screen resolution of DV NTSC is 720×480. If you have a 17″ MBP your screen resolution would be 1680×1050 and would make your movie look very pixelated indeed.

[videovideo] “The person who shot this said he shot it 30p– progressive. He noted to not capture with regular dv ntsc settings but to change capture settings from interlaced to progressive. He also noted to change the QT settings in the sequence to progressive. “

Your shooter gave you poor information, at least as far as editing with FCP is concerned. Whether the footage is progressive or interlaced you still use the same DV NTSC 48K codec. When I edit 30p I just edit as normal and don’t worry about checking for field dominance because there IS no one field that is dominant over the other. It’s just one complete picture for each frame of video.

When you go to encode for DVD THEN you can worry about setting the field dominance to “none”. Use compressor to encode @ 2pass VBR Best, then use DVDSP to build the DVD. Stay away from iDVD because you don’t have nearly the same control over the encoding and building process as you do with Compressor and DVDSP.

Hope this helps.

– Don

[Adam Smith]

[Don Greening] “Your shooter gave you poor information, at least as far as editing with FCP is concerned. Whether the footage is progressive or interlaced you still use the same DV NTSC 48K codec. When I edit 30p I just edit as normal and don’t worry about checking for field dominance because there IS no one field that is dominant over the other. It’s just one complete picture for each frame of video. “

This is one aspect of working with 30p footage over a 60i signal that I’m not sure of… if you don’t tell FCP to compensate I don’t see how you could avoid interlace combing between frames? Frame 1 would look great, but as Field1 of Frame2 shows up, any horizontal motion would look combed (twice as much as normal) and then Field2 of Frame2 would arrive and things are pretty again.

Or are you talking about true 30P material and if so, do you still ingest via NTSC DV presets?

—
Video Photographer / Avid Editor / Final Cut Neophyte

[Don Greening]

[N.Adam.Smith] “Or are you talking about true 30P material and if so, do you still ingest via NTSC DV presets?
“

The short answer is yes.

Here’s the long answer:

Okay. I did a little research this morning and have a reading recommendation for those that need to edit 24p and 30p within FCP. Follow the workpath that the experts in the thread talk about and you’ll become proficient as well.

The times I have edited 30p I’ve never had to worry about setting sequence field dominance to “none” because I’ve never had to render any effects, filters or graphics. If any renders, etc, need to be done then it’s recommended that you set the sequence field order settings to “none” to keep inserted graphics, renders, etc. from being written as interlaced.

Anyway, read on:

https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/949009

– Don