Please advise me on workflow

[Fred Robinson]

Thanks. This seems to work fine.

Of course, in doing this, I’ve now come up with a new question…

Since I’m using a 5dMkii and now this cineform codec to convert its H.264 files into the new edit-friendly, lossless AVI files, should my project be set to 8-bit, 32-bit 2.222 (Video), or 32-bit 1.000 (Linear). I note that, through interpolation, the cineform codec improves the chroma from 4:2:0 to 4:2:2. I could be wrong but isn’t a feature of this that the pixel depth moves from 8-bit to 10-bit in the resulting AVI files? I’m also led to think that the 5dMkii has a range 0-255, rather than the narrower range starting at 16. Do all these factors mean I should use the 32-bit 1.000 Linear pixel depth setting for my projects?

I did three renders of the same 1 minute 29seconds sub-project. The resultant file sizes were:

8-bit = 1374187KB
32-bit Video = 1375235KB
32-bit Linear = 1380000KB

Interesting that they’re all so similar in size. What was different though was the render times. The first two were the same at about 4 minutes, but the linear one took just over double the time to do.

So – in your expert opinion, given my media types and my demand for best quality, which of the three options should I use prior to performing the renders through the cineform codec?

Thanks once again.

Fred

[John Rofrano]

Since I’m using a 5dMkii and now this cineform codec to convert its H.264 files into the new edit-friendly, lossless AVI files, should my project be set to 8-bit, 32-bit 2.222 (Video), or 32-bit 1.000 (Linear).

This is confusing to a lot of people. The project pixel format in Vegas has nothing to do with the codec bit depth.

The project pixel format controls the math precision used within Vegas to perform video processing (compositing, scaling, previewing, rendering, and most video plug-ins) using 8-bit or 32-bit, floating-point arithmetic. There is no reason to change it from 8-bit unless you have banding or other color problems in which case you may want to change it to 32-bit. Sony does recommend chganging it to 32-bit (video levels) when working with 10-bit YUV but I have always left it at 8-bit pixel format when working with Cineform. You might want to experiment and see if you can tell the difference.

The bottom line is, “does the file you rendered using the 32-bit pixel format look any different than the one you rendered using 8-bit? If not, use 8-bit… if so, use 32-bit.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Fred Robinson]

Great answer as always. I had a sneaky feeling that they had nothing to do with each other.

So; can I tell the difference? Honestly? Even when I play the stuff on my 1080p projector onto a 106-inch screen… …No. I see no difference at all.

I can, however, see a slight improvement in the new AVI files that cineform has created when compared to the original files which came straight from the 5DMkii though – but this will be down to the 4:2:0 -> 4:2:2 interpolation I’m supposing. But certainly no differences between the 3 versions of the AVI file.

Many thanks again. This really is a brilliant forum. I hope that my ‘noobness’, dumb questions and your excellent answers will help other Canon 5D / Vegas users.

🙂

Fred

[John Rofrano]

I didn’t think that you would see a difference but I had never tried it with Cineform footage myself. Then again, my footage would be from an HDV or AVCHD camera… nothing as good as a 7D so I was also curious to see if the 7D footage showed any difference. Good to know that using Cineform has improved your workflow.

I’m amazed that people are constantly posting about what intermediary to use so that they don’t have to purchase Cineform when the answer is.. None.. just buy Cineform and get on with your movie making. 😉

Glad I could help.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Fred Robinson]

I seriously wish I’d known about cineform earlier. I’ve been editing directly with the camera output files and vegas struggles like hell. It’s like heaven now working with these AVIs and it’s great to know I’m not losing any quality and – in fact – gaining a tiny bit.

So thanks very much to you for that. Well worth the cash. No; make that DOUBLE the cash!!

May I ask another question or two?

Although I’m not finished editing yet, I’m trying to work out where I’ll be going next. So I tried creating the MPEG-2 and AC-3 files from Vegas at 29.97 in the way you said. Ready for a play about in DVD Architect Pro. The questions I have about this stage are…

1. Which main concept setting should I choose? ‘Main’ is the default, but looking at the help files it says to use the ‘better’ on if your equipment is 4:2:2. Since the cineform tool has interpolated to 4:2:2 should I use this setting instead? Will DVD Architech mind?

2. Why does the video file not have the mpeg-2 suffix? It is an mt2.

3. Must I do two renders, one for the video and one for the sound? Or can I tick the box on the last settings tab which implies it’ll result in separate streams?

Bear in mind I’m ending up on blu-ray here.

Cheers for staying with me on this. I’m kind of feeling my way a bit… …as I’m sure you can tell.

Fred

[Fred Robinson]

…sorry, I meant m2v, not mt2 in my second question?

[John Rofrano]

1. Which main concept setting should I choose? ‘Main’ is the default, but looking at the help files it says to use the ‘better’ on if your equipment is 4:2:2. Since the cineform tool has interpolated to 4:2:2 should I use this setting instead? Will DVD Architech mind?

I would start by using the defaults. Your footage isn’t really 4:2:2 because it started as 4:2:0 and you can’t create color information. What you have is 4:2:0 in a 4:2:2 format. It’s the same as taking NTSC DV which is 4:1:1 and rendering it as uncompressed and then saying you have 4:4:4 video. You don’t. 😉 (well… technically the video stream is 4:4:4 but it only carries 4:1:1 information)

2. Why does the video file not have the mpeg-2 suffix? It is an mt2.

The extension .MPG is for standard MPEG2 which can contain video and audio. The extension .M2V is for an MPEG video stream only.

3. Must I do two renders, one for the video and one for the sound? Or can I tick the box on the last settings tab which implies it’ll result in separate streams?

You must do two renders. These two streams will be used by DVD Architect to create the VOB files for the DVD.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Fred Robinson]

Okay – will do.

Interested in your first point. I totally accept that there’s a difference between the format of the stream and the information it carries. (I’d still be an ugly git even in a Rolls Royce), but since the cineform codec gave me a makeover (to continue the analogy) surely I’d lose the makeover if I went in the Ford instead?

Thanks again.

F

[John Rofrano]

It is possible that the footage looked a little better once converted to Cineform. It just didn’t make 4:2:2 from the 4:2:0 was all I was trying to say. Your analogy is a good one but I’ll take the Rolls Royce and feel like I look better anyway. 😉

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Fred Robinson]

There is probably a lot of truth in that! lol

Thanks again!