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Photoshop CS6 Beta released, with magnetic timeline!
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[Jim Giberti] “[Walter Soyka] “I love clip connections. I think that’s a great idea, and I think an NLE should be able to track the relationships between clips when an editor asks it to. Given clip connections, I think a form of collision avoidance makes sense. It’s the auto-collapsing timeline, object models and relative time that give me the heebie jeebies.”
Walter, I think this is a very succinct and accurate explanation why this paradigm fails for so many professionals.
The reason that Apple decided to take a good idea for some editors, some of the time and turn it into a new overarching concept in editing is baffling.
“Jim, I agree. I also agree with Walter that part one of his assessment would make for some amazing editing if it weren’t subjugated by part Two.
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[Lance Bachelder] “The new timeline rules! Love everything about this rev so far. If PPro is anything like this it could do really well.
“I have to say I am looking forward to this release.
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[Chris Harlan] “I have to say I am looking forward to this release.”
Let’s hope they release a public Beta of it too
Steve Connor
“FCPX Professional”
Adrenalin Television -
[Steve Connor] “Good grief, it was a joke!
“And, a good one.
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I think you have it backwards, Daniel – the executives that are out of touch seem to be at Apple. Check out labs.adobe.com some time – they listen to their users, and they actually give us what they’re working on to see whether it works. With Adobe, it’s Design, Test, Ship – with Apple it’s Design, Ship, Test.
Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com -
haha, you’re right Joseph.
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[Walter Soyka] “The classic timeline data model is all about placing clips freely in absolute time. The clips have no codified relationship to each other.”
Walter,
I’m not sure I agree with this, or at least not without qualification – clip relationships are dependent on or defined by absolute time.
Likewise, I would qualify this:
[Walter Soyka] “Editorial now involves explicitly managing the relationships between clips in an edit in a way that doesn’t exist with other apps. FCPX is built for defining the relationships between clips, not defining their position in time.”
I take exception because I wouldn’t object to defining editing as “managing” or “defining relationships between clips” (on one level). It seems clear there are different kinds or ways of managing those relationships in X (eg. clip connections), so it’s expanded the kinds of relationships possible (and their importance) while abandoning other kinds of relationships (tracks).
On the other hand, I think I still might be missing a piece of the theory of X – I can’t see much difference between the idea of an “absolute time” timeline and a timeline which references back to the longest clip or clip amalgamation – meaning I can’t really see how that difference impacts on the timeline in any meaningful way. Clip connections, parent-child, object models – I can understand those differences. I’m just not sure what the practical ramifications are for what we’re calling absolute and relative time models, or more to the point: a ripple still looks like a ripple in either model.
(I might be conflating data models with editing theory here, but where else better to do this?)
Franz.
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[Walter Soyka] “The classic timeline data model is all about placing clips freely in absolute time. The clips have no codified relationship to each other.”
[Franz Bieberkopf] “Walter, I’m not sure I agree with this, or at least not without qualification – clip relationships are dependent on or defined by absolute time.”
Fair criticism, but I did try to qualify it with the word “codified.” Of course an editor is creating clip relationships in a traditional timeline, but prior to FCPX, there was no facility in the software for managing these relationships. Temporal relationships across tracks were implicit, not explicit. The editor had to preserve these relationships across other operations that might otherwise disrupt them through the use of careful selection or track targeting.
FCP7’s design is generally to preserve a clip’s place in absolute time at the expense of its connection to other clips; FCPX’s design is generally to preserve a clip’s connection to other clips at the expense of its place in absolute time.
[Franz Bieberkopf] “I take exception because I wouldn’t object to defining editing as “managing” or “defining relationships between clips” (on one level). It seems clear there are different kinds or ways of managing those relationships in X (eg. clip connections), so it’s expanded the kinds of relationships possible (and their importance) while abandoning other kinds of relationships (tracks).”
Also a fair criticism. I agree that editing could be defined as managing the relationship between clips.
The difference I see here is that I think that’s only implicit in FCP7, which doesn’t itself relate clips to each other. It only relates them to absolute time, and leaves it to the editor to mentally maintain a memory or understanding of how clips relate.
FCPX makes this explicit. Every clip is now essentially relative to the first clip of the primary storyline; the relationships between clips are the glue that holds the edit together and allows any of these clips to be expressed in terms of absolute time for playout.
[Franz Bieberkopf] “I’m just not sure what the practical ramifications are for what we’re calling absolute and relative time models, or more to the point: a ripple still looks like a ripple in either model.”
In terms of output, at least, I don’t think there is a practical ramification.
In terms of operation, it may just be a matter of taste. I don’t think that it’s literally impossible to create an edit in one that you couldn’t create in the other, though the mechanics of doing so in each would differ.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Walter Soyka] ”
FCPX makes this explicit. Every clip is now essentially relative to the first clip of the primary storyline …”Walter,
This is sort of where I fail in understanding the two models – can’t one say that the “absolute time” model essentially relates all clips back to the start time? Or to restate: in what way is the “absolute time” model not dependent on the first frame of the sequence?
But:
[Walter Soyka] “FCP7’s design is generally to preserve a clip’s place in absolute time at the expense of its connection to other clips; FCPX’s design is generally to preserve a clip’s connection to other clips at the expense of its place in absolute time.”
This seems the clearest, most concise articulation of the different models. Great!
Franz.
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Yeah I’m kinda bummed I’m not on the beta team anymore for CS. Should be an interesting NAB this year.
Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California
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