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Phillip Bloom goes to the dark side
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[greg janza] “I think overall you and I are coming at our conclusions from opposite ends. Your many years of PC frustrations are not that dissimilar from my many years of Apple allegiance which became a long slow decline in allegiance due to their lack of component options lack of upgradeability and ever increasing product cost, which to me, can’t be justified.”
Yea, that’s exactly what I figured.
I have to admit, I did get really, really pissed at Apple when they removed the brightness control form macOS for my Apple 24″ Cinema Display. I forget if it was around Yosemite or El Capitan but I couldn’t believe it! They make a display with absolutely no physical controls of any kind and then they drop software support for it so that it stays at 100% brightness forever. Luckily I found an app to adjust the brightness, so I guess I’m already experiencing some of the frustration when Apple makes a bone-headed move like that one. (What were they thinking??? …time to buy a new Mac of course) 😉
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com -
[John Rofrano] ” [Shawn Miller] “Yeah… but if your applications require substantially more horsepower than Photoshop, the aesthetics of the computer you run them on would probably be a lot less important to you. ☺”
Well, if your applications are running sub optimally for the platform I would agree. But…”
Not sure what there is to argue about here – some application types are just (computationally) more expensive than others; NLEs need more compute power than still image editors, 3D renderers need more compute power than NLEs… for those of us that work with more than just still image editors and NLEs, performance has to come before brand loyalty or the aesthetics of a computer case.
[John Rofrano] “Speaking of saving rendering time… Here is the results of a 2 minute 4K Timeline export on a 2016 MacBook Pro which took 3.27 minutes for FCP X and a wapping 58.42 minutes for Premiere Pro! (FCP X is ~18x faster !!!) Even running Premiere Pro on a Dell XPS with the same specs it took 18.51 minutes which still makes FCP X 5.6x faster than Premiere! It’s not about the hardware speeds and feeds, it’s about how much work you can get done with the hardware and software combined.”
Right… a good chunk of my work is 3D “stuff” though. I sometimes have scenes that take an hour or more per frame to render, and that’s on a dual 10 core Xeon machine… I doubt a mackbook could even load some of my scenes. Again, I don’t care what my computer looks like, who makes it, or what OS it runs on. If I can get a render down from 75 minutes per frame to 45 minutes per frame, that translates into time and money saved over time.
[John Rofrano] ”
So you don’t need some big behemoth of a PC with fans screaming like a 747 on takeoff when you have software that is optimized for the hardware it’s running on like we have on the Mac.”I have a dual 10 core Xeon workstation that I can’t hear under full CPU load….. also, I’m guessing you’ve never used Redshift, Octane or MoI on the PC…
[John Rofrano] “The chart above speaks for itself. Premiere Pro runs better on Windows than on a Mac but it still doesn’t runs nearly as fast as Final Cut Pro X on a Mac so yea, if you are a Premiere user, Windows should be your platform of choice and you should buy the biggest beefiest PC you can afford.”
Right… but for those of us that do more than just edit, fast h.264 exports may not be that big of a deal. For me personally, being able to output .mp4 files in less than a minute is a lot less important than the ability to run my 3D renderer of choice.
[John Rofrano] ” FCP X editors don’t need that much power to get even more work done on a Mac.”
And that’s great for FCPX editors… but it doens’t have anything to do with my answer to Greg’s original question. If a computer has the hardware I need to get my work done more quickly… I don’t care what it looks like or who makes it.
Shawn
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[John Rofrano] “3.27 minutes for FCP X and a wapping 58.42 minutes for Premiere Pro! (FCP X is ~18x faster !!!) Even running Premiere Pro on a Dell XPS with the same specs it took 18.51 minutes which still makes FCP X 5.6x faster than Premiere!”
It seems Premiere Pro works better on a PC.
[John Rofrano] “It’s not about the hardware speeds and feeds, it’s about how much work you can get done with the hardware and software combined.”
Quick Sync works well and can give a laptop a huge performance boost. Keep in mind a Mac Book can render faster to h.264 than a Mac Pro.
[John Rofrano] “So you don’t need some big behemoth of a PC with fans screaming like a 747 on takeoff when you have software that is optimized for the hardware it’s running on like we have on the Mac.”
FCPX renders h.264 faster on the old iMac than the new iMac Pro. I have told you already there is nothing special about FCPX other than it uses Intel’s Quick Sync. Try editing any other coded beside h.264/pmeg4/avchd and post the benhcmarks between FCPX and Premiere Pro. Don’t give Apple more credit then they deserve. FCPX only has an advantage over Premiere Pro when using mediocre laptop specs.
[John Rofrano] “PC developers need to make their software work with 100’s of different GPU’s. Mac developers have a handful of configurations to support so the software can be extremely optimized for the platform.”
Edius can match the benchmarks of FCPX when using h.264 because Edius uses Inel’s Quick Sync. In fact some PC programs used Intel’s Quick Sync before FCPX.
[John Rofrano] “The chart above speaks for itself. Premiere Pro runs better on Windows than on a Mac but it still doesn’t runs nearly as fast as Final Cut Pro X on a Mac so yea, if you are a Premiere user, Windows should be your platform of choice and you should buy the biggest beefiest PC you can afford. FCP X editors don’t need that much power to get even more work done on a Mac.”
I’ll put my 4 year old Haswell PC against your system and I certainly don’t have a big and beefy system ; )
[John Rofrano] “The problem is not PC vs Mac as much as it’s Premiere running better on a PC. Since I don’t use any Adobe products, the Mac gives be both aesthetics and performance. ????”
I think that is the problem. You don’t use a Windows PC or Premiere Pro but you will post about Premiere Pro and Windows being sluggish and problematic but the people that happen to use Windows and Premiere Pro don’t make the same comments. Why do you think that is? Why do Mac users who do not use a Windows PC or Premiere Pro complain more about Windows PC and Premiere Pro than the people who actually use them? Why do you think that is?
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[Shawn Miller] “And that’s great for FCPX editors… but it doens’t have anything to do with my answer to Greg’s original question. If a computer has the hardware I need to get my work done more quickly… I don’t care what it looks like or who makes it.
“Then you answered your own question, even if you’re unwilling to acknowledge it.
If EDITORIAL is a significant part of your work – you should add a Mac and FCP X to your toolkit. Because that’s the hardware and software combo that “edits” the fastest right now.
Of course you’d have to learn to use the software efficiently – which takes effort.
Adding “other software” to the mix is certainly a rational reason to sticking with a PC – but you have to accept that you’re hobbling your editorial tasks, just for access to the greater horsepower required for running less efficient non-editorial software. So you’re just picking one compromise over another. Which is fine. But for how long?
As we saw with FCP X – tearing down a legacy program is a big risk. But a few years down the road – when those performance gains prove to be very significant – it’s one really good way to keep the efficiency curve ascending.
Hard choices.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Paul Golden] “AE is still a joy to use in terms of UI, animation tools and organizing tools,”
I would ay that AE is a “joy” when you see the final results. The UI and process (including playback) is painful IMHO only.
Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Visual Storyteller
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter -
“If EDITORIAL is a significant part of your work – you should add a Mac and FCP X to your toolkit. Because that’s the hardware and software combo that “edits” the fastest right now.“
If you’re a freelancer working with a variety of post production companies or in-house video departments it’s unlikely FCPX would be a viable option.
I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Can’t Stop Eating Peanuts.
– Orson Welles -
[andy patterson] “They are disabled on my Windows 10 system. “
Yes, but for how long? I disabled them on my Windows 10 VM and then one day I’m shutting it down and it says, “please don’t turn off your computer, Windows is updating” and when I rebooted and checked, Windows Update was running again. So it doesn’t stay disabled. Mind you… the setting was still on Disable but the process as Running! That is a scary thought!
[andy patterson] “Vista and Window 8 worked great.”
Windows Vista was the laughing stock of the computer industry. Even Microsoft admitted it was horrible. Windows 7 was rushed out to make Vista go away. Windows 8 started the Metro debacle which is why I stuck with my Windows 7 desktop.
[andy patterson] “Have you ever used FDISK? “
Yes, just the other day in fact. I have Bootcamp with Windows 7 on my Mac Pro because I still have software that I must support and it wouldn’t boot. I had to run FDISK C: /F to fix corrupt files. That’s a big problem with Windows that macOS doesn’t have to worry about. MacOS uses a journaled filesystem which means transaction logs are kept to rebuild files should they become corrupt. Windows has nothing like this and depending on how many times your Windows PC locks up and has to be cold started, files will become corrupt and it will stop booting. You should run FDISK (or the GUI version) regularly on a Windows PC to catch file corruption before it gets too bad.
[andy patterson] “Have you ever changed the AGP aperture settings or the PCI latency settings?”
Yes, but not since I owned a Readl3D Video Card.
I also spent a fair amount of time assigning Interrupts to my SoundBlaster card on the ISA BUS (before the plug-n-play PCI Bus was invented) Those were fun days debugging why your new game wouldn’t run only to find out that your new graphics card and audio card were sharing the same interrupt. lol
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com -
[Bill Davis] “[Shawn Miller] “And that’s great for FCPX editors… but it doens’t have anything to do with my answer to Greg’s original question. If a computer has the hardware I need to get my work done more quickly… I don’t care what it looks like or who makes it.
”Then you answered your own question, even if you’re unwilling to acknowledge it.”
I didn’t actually ask any questions, I answered Greg’s question… what am I unwilling to acknowledge?
[Bill Davis] “but you have to accept that you’re hobbling your editorial tasks, just for access to the greater horsepower required for running less efficient non-editorial software.”
How do you know that my non-editorial software is less efficient? Don’t you routinely criticize non-FCPX editors for commenting on software they’ve never used?☺
Shawn
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[John Rofrano] ” [andy patterson] “They are disabled on my Windows 10 system. ”
Yes, but for how long? I disabled them on my Windows 10 VM and then one day I’m shutting it down and it says, “please don’t turn off your computer, Windows is updating” and when I rebooted and checked, Windows Update was running again. So it doesn’t stay disabled. Mind you… the setting was still on Disable but the process as Running! That is a scary thought!”
My system never fails to shut down because of updates. Did you disable the updates as shown in the video below? I am thinking you did not.
[John Rofrano] ” [andy patterson] “Vista and Window 8 worked great.”
Windows Vista was the laughing stock of the computer industry. Even Microsoft admitted it was horrible. Windows 7 was rushed out to make Vista go away. Windows 8 started the Metro debacle which is why I stuck with my Windows 7 desktop.”
I think you might be confused. How was the Metro Mode a debacle? It actually worked great. In fact the iPad iOS ripped off some of the feature of the Windows 8 Metro Mode. Windows 10 still has the Metro (touch screen) GUI. It is slightly different. Also Windows Vista worked just fine for myself and many others. Windows Vista actually gave Premiere Pro a little better performance than Windows 7. You will have to trust me on that one.
[John Rofrano] “Yes, just the other day in fact. I have Bootcamp with Windows 7 on my Mac Pro because I still have software that I must support and it wouldn’t boot. I had to run FDISK C: /F to fix corrupt files. That’s a big problem with Windows that macOS doesn’t have to worry about”
I am thinking you never used DOS to partition and format a hard drive. You wouldn’t use FDISK to fix corrupt files. I think you are thinking of CHKDISK. Having said that my files don’t go corrupt.
[John Rofrano] “Windows has nothing like this and depending on how many times your Windows PC locks up and has to be cold started, files will become corrupt and it will stop booting. You should run FDISK (or the GUI version) regularly on a Windows PC to catch file corruption before it gets too bad.”
It will stop booting? I never had that happen. If someone gets a virus maybe (just maybe) but that would not be because of Windows if the system gets hacked. I don’t have my editing PC on the internet. A Mac can also get a virus. Also you should not run FDISK on Windows PC regularly. In fact there has not been a need to use FDISK for over 15 years. As I stated earlier FDISK is a DOS utility for creating a partition and formatting the hard drive. If you used FDISK daily that might explain why you had so many issues.
Friends shouldn’t let friends FDISK : )
[John Rofrano] “I also spent a fair amount of time assigning Interrupts to my SoundBlaster card on the ISA BUS (before the plug-n-play PCI Bus was invented) Those were fun days debugging why your new game wouldn’t run only to find out that your new graphics card and audio card were sharing the same interrupt. lol”
The PCI (Plug and Play) bus still made use of IRQs as seen in the video below. Anyone can talk about DOS, IRQs and even ISA slots but how any people have actually seen them in the wild?
Having said that I miss my jumpers and dip switches : )
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[andy patterson] “My system never fails to shut down because of updates. Did you disable the updates as shown in the video below? I am thinking you did not. “
Yes, I did and I can make a video of the problem if you don’t believe me because I use virtual machines every day in my testing and I don’t want any of them updating without me doing it and I disable update right after the OS is installed and shut down the machine and it’s fine. Then I turn the machine on again and check and update is still disabled. When I shut it down the second time, it tells me it has to apply updates. When I turn it back on, Windows Update is still showing as Disabled but the service is RUNNING! Maybe after a certain amount of updates it actually stops updating but this is on a clean system and I do not want updates but Microsoft insists on running it even though it’s disabled. What I do is disable the network adapter after the initial load because all of my tests are local and don’t require the internet.
[andy patterson] “How was the Metro Mode a debacle?”
It shocked everyone who updated their Windows XP machines to Vista and the desktop was gone and their PC looked like a Windows Phone with this big “Hello Kitty” boxes interface. The Start menu was also missing. Several vendors made money selling plug-ins that would add the start menu back again. The desktop could be enabled but then you would start a program that tried to open a link in a browser and instead of opening the desktop browser, it would switch back to the Metro interface with a full screen browser and you had to figure out how to get back to your desktop. It was horrible! Customers complained and eventually Microsoft made the desktop the default in Windows 7 and brought the start menu back. When a company like Microsoft has to admit they were wrong and change the interface back to how XP looked… I call that a debacle! Nobody wanted their PC to look like a Windows Phone.
[andy patterson] “I am thinking you never used DOS to partition and format a hard drive. You wouldn’t use FDISK to fix corrupt files. I think you are thinking of CHKDISK. Having said that my files don’t go corrupt. “
Yes, I was thinking of CHKDSK and Yes you would use FDISK to recover corrupt Master Boot Record (FDISK /MBR) which I’ve used to recover Windows systems that won’t boot. But you are correct, I was talking about using CHKDSK to fix corrupt files. Files get corrupt when you computer blue-screens (BSOD) or locks up and needs to be powered off. If you use a Windows computer long enough, this will eventually happen to you. Updates to drivers that are buggy or not compatible with your hardware is a common reason for BSODs. Running CHKDSK every once in a while to catch file corruption before it gets bad is a good idea. Maybe Windows 10 does this now behind the scenes as part of regular maintenance?
[andy patterson] “The PCI (Plug and Play) bus still made use of IRQs as seen in the video below.”
Yes, of course it still does but before plug-n-play you sometimes had to reassign the IRQ’s manually so that they did not conflict. It’s not that the hardware wouldn’t work, but hardware that shared interrupts didn’t work well at the same time so having your display card and sound card on the same interrupt made game play difficult. Plug-n-play allowed devices to negotiate their own interrupts better so they would grab the next free IRQ instead of all being assigned to the same few from the factory.
[andy patterson] “Anyone can talk about DOS, IRQs and even ISA slots but how any people have actually seen them in the wild? “
I have worked for IBM for the past 33 years and I started in the IT department back in 1984 as a PC Technician so I’ve assembled, disassembled, partitioned, formatted, inserted math coprocessors and memory chips one-by-one, and flipped dip switches in more PC’s that I can count. This is what I did for a living! I may not remember it all with clarity, but I was there and still have some rather old parts in my parts drawer to prove it (like a sleeve of memory chips). Before joining IBM I had an Apple ][+ 48K (which I still own) and had I not joined IBM, I probably would have stuck with Apple. ☹ I also still have my Macintosh 128K (the original) which was the last Apple computer I owned before going to the IBM PC. I’ve personally owned a PC XT, PC AT, PS2 Mod-30, & PS2 Mod-80 (yes, microchannel!) before buying clones and building my own. So yea… now that I think about it… my experience is probably not the norm because I’ve seen everyone else problems including mine. lol 😉
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com
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